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on this episode of skeptico

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a show about the darkness and light of

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sexuality

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because there is so much darkness around

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it so i said okay why don't i address it

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why don't i bring it into light

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like they wanted to demean for example

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mary magdalene and other goddesses and

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then my question is why there must be

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some liberating power in it and we have

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to claim it but in our own way not

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through darkness but through light and

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why we might want to always be

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suspicious

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of spiritual intermediaries

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i as an ordained person with an

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indelible mark can make holy communion

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is what separates you

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from me

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so for instance if you're gay

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and you're not absolutely chaste and

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celibate you can't go to communion if

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you vote for somebody who

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approves of abortion you can't go to

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communion according to some so it's

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become

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a kind of a politicized reward for

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thinking the right way

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stick around for my interview with the

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very excellent dr joanna kawavi

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welcome to skeptica where we explore

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controversial science and spirituality

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with leading researchers thinkers and

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their critics i'm your host alex sacaris

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and today we welcome dr joanna cawave to

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skeptico

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she's here to talk about this book that

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i've pulled up on the screen mary

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magdalene and the goddesses of arrows in

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secret knowledge

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joanna it's awesome to have you here

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thanks so much for joining me on

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skeptico

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thank you alex i'm delighted to be here

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with you

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well you know we'll see what you say at

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the end

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i'm sure we will you know i've been

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looking forward to this and the more

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i've dug into the book the more i've

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really

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thought about so many things that i'd

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love to share and talk and we've got

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some good emails back and forth and i

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think we'll have a fun

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spirited discussion but a positive one

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it's like i said you are my dharma

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sister man you're into yoga you're into

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spirituality you're into all this cool

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stuff

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tell us a little bit about

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your background i i'm going to read a

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little bit before you do i'm going to

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interrupt that i'm going to short

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circuit that excellent bio

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people can check out

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your

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website and if they do they'll check out

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this very cool bio about

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dr joanna and read a bunch of stuff and

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there's a little bit that i pulled out

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of it i thought was really cool

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although through my university education

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i was groomed to be a catholic

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intellectual

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the story i was told made less and less

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sense

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i subscribe to no religion and yet i'm a

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passionate believer

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in spiritual evolution at the presence

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of spirituality in all aspects of our

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lives oh i love that rich spiritual

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lives

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not rigid fear-based religion but

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spirituality which expands by embracing

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every aspect of our humanity and making

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it divine

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this calls for redefining spirituality

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and freeing it from old constraints and

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limitations

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imposed by past cultural conditioning

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how beautiful

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ah thank you

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but it's true it's true for all of us i

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think for many of us

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for

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i call myself a spiritual detective but

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i think it's probably uh

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true about every sincere spiritual

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seeker right like we we know that you

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are more than we are told that we are by

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by i would argue i don't know if it's

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controversial on this show or not by by

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all traditional religions you know they

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instead of uplifting us you know they in

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some ways try to stop a spiritual

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evolution however they did some good

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things such as i would argue they

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preserved certain sacred writings for us

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you know but i think that we should be

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able to interpret them ourselves

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and and take

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something from where

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that you know the hidden truth sometimes

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in between lines

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so it requires more effort than just

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going to church right it requires

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passion and and commitment

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you know what let's let's take what you

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just said which is quite

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quite beautiful quite you know

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controversial to some but to others it's

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just second nature

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and connect that forest to

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the book okay so i actually um it i'm at

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the moment for last 16 years i've been

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living in australia and i before in

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canada and paris but i'm originally from

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poland and i was brought up in an

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interesting environment because in

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poland everybody it was a communist

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regime

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but everybody was also catholic deeply

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catholic like the very medieval version

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of catholicism you know like what people

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believe in the 14th century people

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believed in the 20th century in the

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poland island right it's changing now

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so you know as a little girl i was going

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to church you know normal right and

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there are some beautiful baroque

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churches in my hometown

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and i always you know i noticed that you

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know the divine feminine was definitely

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worshipped in poland because virgin mary

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is the main deity you know like this is

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what she represents basically religion

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almost there

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and and i saw this you know with

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beautiful paintings of virgin mary on

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one side but i noticed that there is

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this other woman yes

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so it's it's um black madonna after

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hover you know she's actually called the

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queen of poland so she's just like the

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main deity there my grandmother went on

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foot you know for hundreds of kilometers

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you know to to see the painting on the

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top of the mountain you know it is the

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whole medieval thing right

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and and so so this is her

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and then i noticed that in hiddening the

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knaves of the church there was there

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were paintings of this other woman you

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know and it was the pain there the

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paintings of mary magdalene right or

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mary magdalene

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and that she was i had this um sense

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that she was somehow close to jesus so

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she was close to the teacher as i call

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him now and and and but there was

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something shame who is shameful about

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her you know but also something very

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fascinating

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and

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thought that we have this strange

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polarity in our minds you know

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especially with the respect to

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feminine which is basically you know

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either this mother figure which is

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completely pure

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and you know asexual

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and

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but also very meeting you know like you

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can be that and this is the only way to

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be and there was this other archetype

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that was kind of demeaned but it was

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very fascinating so eventually many

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years after that i started to explore

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this archetype

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uh that i think that mary magdalene you

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know embodies

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and looked into goddesses that perhaps

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came before her or when other

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embodiments of the same archetype

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and i started to look into also as

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sexuality because i thought

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that you know i started to notice that

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you know mary magdalene most likely was

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never a prostitute you know and even the

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catholic church admitted in 1969 but you

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know not not many people know that that

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they did that

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and i wondered why she was so pushed

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into their

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to the margins you know why she was

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demeaning

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on the one hand especially in the

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orthodox tradition eastern orthodox

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tradition she is like the apostle of

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apostles on the other hand you know

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she's this

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penitent prostitute and it just didn't

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agree with me somehow the whole story

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somehow i didn't think that she was a

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prostitute and then some along the way i

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also discovered the gnostic teachings

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the gnostic gospels and and gnostic

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writings not only the gospels and went

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into this and i realized that she was

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also portrayed as in in some of them as

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the favored disciple of of jesus so what

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a fascinating person right at the same

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time on my own personal journey i just

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don't want to confuse anybody here i i

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started to because when i moved away

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from catholicism i started to look for

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other options like you know most people

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do when they

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give up the original religion and i

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started to move towards esoteric

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hinduism

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and i started to be interested in what

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is now called tantric teacher teachings

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but it had nothing to do

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at first with sexuality but rather the

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teaching that everything is

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consciousness

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everything is divine and i thought wow

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it's very interesting because especially

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our sexuality

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uh is being portrayed by the modern

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media and through centuries is very much

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demeaned right and here

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sexuality is also a form of divinity and

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and we actually can

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arrive to the expansion of consciousness

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be one of the divine through erotic

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rapture and i thought how beautiful and

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how different from what we are being

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normally told

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uh especially by by media

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and i also you know women

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had very little sexual freedom but men

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had more sexual freedom but they were

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also not taught how to honor their

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sexuality

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right it's always something dark in us

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and i think we have to uplift it so

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that's why i started to you know uh

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do this investigative work in my book

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the other goddess

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how to uplift it why we are being told

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that such an integral part of who we are

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is so dark

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and i just just

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just to say i i know that there's a dark

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part to it because there's a dark part

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to everything right but why do we have

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to focus on this dark part why don't we

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learn how we can uplift it

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and honor this you know in a way that

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honors us and our divinity and the

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spirit within us

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great so

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would you say that that's

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more or less the main thing that you

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want people to take away from the book i

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mean

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the the book is written

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for

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who i know women will connect with the

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book because it it

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kind of is

285
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offering a re-interpretation

286
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:59,600
probably a more accurate interpretation

287
00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:00,480
of

288
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what that

289
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:03,519
feminine sexuality that we all

290
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:05,839
understand i mean we all understand

291
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:09,120
intuitively that there's something about

292
00:11:15,350 --> 00:11:13,040
life and death with that feminine energy

293
00:11:17,829 --> 00:11:15,360
and we understand that sexuality is tied

294
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:17,839
into that in a way that you know scares

295
00:11:23,190 --> 00:11:19,920
us especially for men but at the same

296
00:11:24,310 --> 00:11:23,200
time intrigues us drives us

297
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,320
um

298
00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:25,680
is that

299
00:11:30,310 --> 00:11:29,120
how does that connect though with this

300
00:11:33,430 --> 00:11:30,320
experience that we're talking about

301
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,440
before of being that young woman

302
00:11:36,550 --> 00:11:35,519
in a catholic church

303
00:11:43,829 --> 00:11:36,560
in

304
00:11:46,630 --> 00:11:43,839
there's more there's more for me on a

305
00:11:48,550 --> 00:11:46,640
very practical level and then more for

306
00:11:51,550 --> 00:11:48,560
me maybe on this

307
00:11:54,470 --> 00:11:51,560
spiritual level and more for me on this

308
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:54,480
sexuality who i am level that are all

309
00:11:58,790 --> 00:11:56,480
trying to be defined so

310
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:58,800
you're wrapping all that together

311
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,720
in the book but is that

312
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:03,040
what how do i distill that down from the

313
00:12:07,190 --> 00:12:04,639
book

314
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:07,200
okay so i also partially it is also

315
00:12:10,550 --> 00:12:08,720
especially at the end when i try to

316
00:12:12,389 --> 00:12:10,560
bring it all together it is about

317
00:12:14,550 --> 00:12:12,399
getting out of the matrix so to speak

318
00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,560
you know realization that we are leaving

319
00:12:19,590 --> 00:12:16,560
this different

320
00:12:20,949 --> 00:12:19,600
paradigms that are imposed upon us and

321
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,959
it is basically

322
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:22,880
it should be a choice you know it should

323
00:12:27,430 --> 00:12:25,760
be almost as a spiritual duty to take

324
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:27,440
the i say at the end of the book you

325
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:28,560
know 10

326
00:12:33,990 --> 00:12:30,000
make a turn

327
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:34,000
thinking about this film you know old

328
00:12:38,470 --> 00:12:36,480
film midnight express do you remember

329
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,480
this and when he's at certain moment

330
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:40,639
when all prisoners walk in one direction

331
00:12:45,190 --> 00:12:43,200
and this is what we do and we've done it

332
00:12:47,350 --> 00:12:45,200
for millennia and at certain points

333
00:12:49,509 --> 00:12:47,360
something clicks in his mind and he

334
00:12:51,509 --> 00:12:49,519
start to walk in the opposite direction

335
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:51,519
and i think this opposite direction is

336
00:12:56,949 --> 00:12:53,839
actually the direction of spirituality

337
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:56,959
of true spirituality of not allowing

338
00:13:02,550 --> 00:13:00,240
anyone to brainwash us to to explore you

339
00:13:04,870 --> 00:13:02,560
know to to go with your spiritual

340
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:04,880
experience even if sometimes you know it

341
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,519
can be scary because my experience is

342
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:09,760
that it completely rewired me and i was

343
00:13:15,350 --> 00:13:11,760
at the beginning after the initial

344
00:13:17,350 --> 00:13:15,360
ecstasy you know i thought like wow now

345
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:17,360
what am i going to do now everything

346
00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:19,040
that was important for me is less

347
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:21,200
important now you know and i'm an

348
00:13:26,629 --> 00:13:24,639
ambitious person or used to be and now i

349
00:13:29,509 --> 00:13:26,639
i'm just kind of going on this different

350
00:13:32,069 --> 00:13:29,519
path but i think that we are all

351
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:32,079
especially in times like ours you know

352
00:13:35,509 --> 00:13:33,519
called to take

353
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,519
take the different turn

354
00:13:39,750 --> 00:13:37,440
so you know you just kind of mentioned

355
00:13:41,470 --> 00:13:39,760
there but people who check out the book

356
00:13:45,189 --> 00:13:41,480
will find that you're you're very

357
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:45,199
self-disclosing very open

358
00:13:50,790 --> 00:13:47,600
in some ways that will be surprising the

359
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:50,800
book is a tiny bit spicy i mean you know

360
00:13:53,350 --> 00:13:51,760
and

361
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:53,360
what did you think about doing that what

362
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:54,800
did you think about presenting it that

363
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:56,720
way and i think that

364
00:14:00,069 --> 00:13:57,839
in a way

365
00:14:02,949 --> 00:14:00,079
i took that as

366
00:14:06,069 --> 00:14:02,959
a statement about everything you're

367
00:14:08,389 --> 00:14:06,079
saying that you can talk about your

368
00:14:10,629 --> 00:14:08,399
sexuality along with being a religious

369
00:14:12,870 --> 00:14:10,639
scholar along with being all this other

370
00:14:14,829 --> 00:14:12,880
stuff and you can just kind of

371
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,839
put it out there in a kind of

372
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:16,399
unapologetic

373
00:14:20,710 --> 00:14:18,800
way and also in a way that doesn't seem

374
00:14:22,150 --> 00:14:20,720
to be spun you know it just seems to be

375
00:14:28,150 --> 00:14:22,160
kind of

376
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,160
yes thank you thank you for this and

377
00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:30,000
it's true it doesn't mean actually the

378
00:14:35,430 --> 00:14:33,040
writing of it was easy but publishing it

379
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:35,440
and now it's like all out there you know

380
00:14:41,430 --> 00:14:39,279
this is joanna and her experiences

381
00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:41,440
you know it it

382
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,240
it was not so easy you know i'm still

383
00:14:48,710 --> 00:14:46,639
sweating when i think about it you know

384
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,720
because there can be a reaction that can

385
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:50,240
be a backlash

386
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:52,079
but when at the end of the book i say

387
00:14:56,150 --> 00:14:55,279
you know make the turn i i'm sharing my

388
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,160
turn

389
00:15:00,069 --> 00:14:58,320
right like so this is i you have to be

390
00:15:02,230 --> 00:15:00,079
honest with your spiritual experience

391
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:02,240
and this is what my spiritual experience

392
00:15:05,430 --> 00:15:04,560
was with relationship to

393
00:15:08,230 --> 00:15:05,440
uh

394
00:15:10,550 --> 00:15:08,240
in relation to sexuality right although

395
00:15:13,030 --> 00:15:10,560
i had other experiences not related to

396
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:13,040
sexuality but the ones that i focus in

397
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:14,639
the book just for the purpose of the

398
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,920
book you know do focus on sexuality so i

399
00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:19,920
thought you

400
00:15:23,829 --> 00:15:21,920
i have to be honest i'm asking my

401
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,839
readers to be honest i'm completely

402
00:15:28,150 --> 00:15:25,920
honest this is you know i'm as naked as

403
00:15:29,990 --> 00:15:28,160
possible right

404
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:30,000
in in this part of the book which is the

405
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:32,160
first part of the book that's why in

406
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,920
some interviews i said if you just want

407
00:15:37,990 --> 00:15:35,680
to know about mary magdalene and not

408
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,000
about my experiences go to part two

409
00:15:41,749 --> 00:15:40,240
right because the part one can shake you

410
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:41,759
a little bit if you

411
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,160
if you don't want to go there

412
00:15:49,670 --> 00:15:46,240
but i also

413
00:15:51,990 --> 00:15:49,680
for many years studied tantra with

414
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:52,000
tantric scholars with sanskrit scholars

415
00:15:57,670 --> 00:15:55,680
and in the book i describe one of the

416
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:57,680
regular meetings that i had you know the

417
00:16:02,310 --> 00:15:59,600
sanskrit scholar who by the way is also

418
00:16:05,189 --> 00:16:02,320
a catholic priest isn't interesting

419
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:05,199
and and phd in sanskrit but completely

420
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,600
into tantra with a buddhist monk who

421
00:16:12,629 --> 00:16:09,839
escaped tibet and now he has his own

422
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:12,639
successful center in melbourne australia

423
00:16:18,629 --> 00:16:15,440
and and with another independent swami

424
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,639
from uh from adelaide he in in australia

425
00:16:22,629 --> 00:16:20,320
and we were going you know through the

426
00:16:24,710 --> 00:16:22,639
standard test text which is the most

427
00:16:25,829 --> 00:16:24,720
controversial of all of them

428
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:25,839
from

429
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:28,720
10th century indian philosopher abhinava

430
00:16:34,310 --> 00:16:31,680
gupta who actually wrote it down it's

431
00:16:37,189 --> 00:16:34,320
from tantra loka which is the light on

432
00:16:39,110 --> 00:16:37,199
the tantras and chapter 29 is about kola

433
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:39,120
ritual which is the sexual ritual in

434
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,320
tantra

435
00:16:45,269 --> 00:16:42,639
very controversial ritual

436
00:16:47,269 --> 00:16:45,279
and you know and as i was sitting there

437
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:47,279
with this man and we are just you know

438
00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:48,800
everything was proper we are proper

439
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:50,560
scholars not nobody you know nothing

440
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:52,560
happened and i thought that it was so

441
00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:53,920
lifeless

442
00:16:57,509 --> 00:16:55,360
you know like this

443
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:57,519
we are just reading this and it's just

444
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:59,759
and it's encoded so so it's difficult to

445
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:01,040
understand because you know the

446
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:03,040
philosophy himself didn't want you know

447
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:04,720
people just to

448
00:17:10,549 --> 00:17:08,319
go over and do it right because you

449
00:17:12,069 --> 00:17:10,559
you should be you know have a focus on

450
00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:12,079
expansion of consciousness when you

451
00:17:16,309 --> 00:17:14,160
perform the ritual and i thought it was

452
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,319
so lifeless you know and this color and

453
00:17:20,949 --> 00:17:18,880
it's just so dry you know and i and i

454
00:17:23,750 --> 00:17:20,959
thought no we have to

455
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:23,760
uh i'm all about spiritual experience

456
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:25,760
right so i didn't want to write this

457
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,199
kind of book that's why it's not an

458
00:17:31,830 --> 00:17:29,280
academic book i wanted to write a book

459
00:17:33,830 --> 00:17:31,840
that is a easy read that is entertaining

460
00:17:35,830 --> 00:17:33,840
and it's completely honest

461
00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:35,840
so in this part of the book i do

462
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:36,960
actually

463
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:39,600
describe my own tantric experience which

464
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:41,760
was very spontaneous and i call it an

465
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,760
act of grace because i am not a tantric

466
00:17:47,510 --> 00:17:45,280
teacher so i don't even know how to

467
00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:47,520
repeat this experience it just happened

468
00:17:50,789 --> 00:17:48,400
to me

469
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:50,799
but according to the tantric scriptures

470
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,120
i fulfilled the criteria you know at

471
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:55,280
this particular moment so i just met

472
00:17:59,750 --> 00:17:57,520
with a man and and

473
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:59,760
and i was just getting over a

474
00:18:03,990 --> 00:18:02,240
significant relationship and you know

475
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,000
and it just happened and it was a

476
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,400
mind-blowing experience you know what

477
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:09,440
happened actually i felt um

478
00:18:13,909 --> 00:18:11,520
and so that he because i can't according

479
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:13,919
to this tantric teaching a woman is a

480
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:16,559
conduit for the energy to move and then

481
00:18:20,470 --> 00:18:18,400
the energy spills on the man and he was

482
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:20,480
just fortunately he was a spiritual man

483
00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:23,520
so he knew what was happening right

484
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:24,400
but

485
00:18:29,750 --> 00:18:27,360
my whole body was actually lit up

486
00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:29,760
and i felt the movement of energy from

487
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:31,919
my body and some people ask me if you

488
00:18:35,190 --> 00:18:33,520
don't mind to be a little bit graphic

489
00:18:37,190 --> 00:18:35,200
how do you know that it wasn't just an

490
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:37,200
orgasm

491
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:39,280
and i said because it was a conscious

492
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,400
energy

493
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:42,400
like i could feel that something like

494
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:44,400
intantric teachers teachings they talk

495
00:18:49,510 --> 00:18:46,720
about kundalini energy anything like

496
00:18:52,390 --> 00:18:49,520
that your gut stuff and then you feel it

497
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:52,400
and it's just something that you know it

498
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,320
wakes up in you it's completely

499
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,160
conscious it is you it is like your

500
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,280
higher self but it's like you that you

501
00:19:03,510 --> 00:19:01,679
even didn't know you know what you have

502
00:19:05,830 --> 00:19:03,520
and it consciously starts to move

503
00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:05,840
through your body energetically

504
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:07,600
and you know it first blew up in my

505
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:10,000
heart and this is when i lit up and

506
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:12,480
spilled on the man and he was just like

507
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:15,520
wow right and then you know it went

508
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,640
right to my forehead and then it just

509
00:19:23,430 --> 00:19:20,640
paused in a very intelligent way and

510
00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:23,440
decided to move like in one particular

511
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:24,400
direction

512
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,960
and it was an experience that lasted

513
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:28,960
several months when i actually couldn't

514
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,440
almost function because i actually

515
00:19:35,350 --> 00:19:33,360
didn't see the material world i saw like

516
00:19:37,430 --> 00:19:35,360
particles and energy around me and the

517
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:37,440
meantime i had like finish my phd and so

518
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:38,880
on it was like you know it was

519
00:19:44,070 --> 00:19:41,120
completely unreal because i was

520
00:19:47,110 --> 00:19:44,080
transported somewhere else and i was

521
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:47,120
given this beautiful vision i think of

522
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:50,080
energetic universe really right

523
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:52,000
so but it did happen through sexual

524
00:19:54,789 --> 00:19:53,520
experience

525
00:19:57,750 --> 00:19:54,799
and uh

526
00:20:01,029 --> 00:19:57,760
and just like it was described you know

527
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:01,039
in in in the scriptures that uh so i

528
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:02,720
thought like i have to share this kind

529
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,799
of experience otherwise people get this

530
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,880
kind of neo tantra you know what do you

531
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,120
do you know say some mantras do some

532
00:20:12,310 --> 00:20:11,280
breathing like i don't know it would

533
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:12,320
yeah

534
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:14,640
it's sure you can try or you know they

535
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:17,760
get this dry academic text then you know

536
00:20:22,070 --> 00:20:20,080
doesn't even even if you are an academic

537
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,080
like me i still feel like

538
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:24,159
you know like that

539
00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:26,080
it's supposed to be a

540
00:20:30,149 --> 00:20:28,240
erotic rapture that takes you to you

541
00:20:31,190 --> 00:20:30,159
know higher consciousness and this is

542
00:20:33,190 --> 00:20:31,200
just like

543
00:20:36,630 --> 00:20:33,200
it couldn't be more boring you know the

544
00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:36,640
way academics write about it so i

545
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:38,320
thought the only way

546
00:20:41,669 --> 00:20:39,760
to actually

547
00:20:43,029 --> 00:20:41,679
do it differently is to share my own

548
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:43,039
experience

549
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:46,559
great brave brave brave to do that but

550
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:48,880
but here is this is such a great point

551
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:51,360
now because now we're going to talk

552
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:53,600
skeptico

553
00:20:57,430 --> 00:20:55,200
this is the fun part because i'm with

554
00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:57,440
you and i think that's again

555
00:21:02,470 --> 00:20:59,679
awesome that you can share that

556
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,480
and i think a lot of people confirm can

557
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,080
find benefit to that because you're

558
00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:07,440
right the neo-tantric thing just gets so

559
00:21:11,110 --> 00:21:09,600
played out in one way or another just

560
00:21:13,510 --> 00:21:11,120
hey here's a way to hook up with

561
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,520
somebody in a new way you know kind of

562
00:21:16,870 --> 00:21:15,360
thing

563
00:21:19,110 --> 00:21:16,880
and uh

564
00:21:20,549 --> 00:21:19,120
and and you're really obviously you're

565
00:21:22,870 --> 00:21:20,559
reaching for something much more than

566
00:21:25,190 --> 00:21:22,880
that and and as you say it was

567
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:25,200
spontaneous it isn't it even

568
00:21:29,350 --> 00:21:27,039
wasn't like you were

569
00:21:31,669 --> 00:21:29,360
sitting there you know just

570
00:21:32,710 --> 00:21:31,679
make trying to make it happen it more

571
00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:32,720
you were

572
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:34,080
putting yourself in a position where it

573
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:35,840
could happen but here's the skeptical

574
00:21:39,270 --> 00:21:37,360
part

575
00:21:41,350 --> 00:21:39,280
so we've had this nice email exchange

576
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:41,360
and ivan sent you this survey and you

577
00:21:47,350 --> 00:21:44,400
were nice enough to answer the survey

578
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:47,360
and one of the questions was

579
00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:48,400
religion

580
00:21:52,149 --> 00:21:50,400
and you chose the answer

581
00:21:54,950 --> 00:21:52,159
my favorite answer

582
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:54,960
unnecessary intermediary

583
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:56,960
and and i think that's what it is right

584
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,960
so when you were that

585
00:22:03,510 --> 00:22:01,360
girl that young woman in

586
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:03,520
poland and you're looking at the madonna

587
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,799
and i didn't realize she's like the

588
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:06,640
saint of poland and she's got scars on

589
00:22:11,750 --> 00:22:09,679
her face you know she looks very very

590
00:22:14,390 --> 00:22:11,760
troubled you know isn't it interesting

591
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:14,400
as a whole culture a whole country to

592
00:22:18,630 --> 00:22:16,320
take on why was that who you would adopt

593
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:18,640
but anyways that's what it is

594
00:22:23,310 --> 00:22:20,240
but what do we do with the fact that

595
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:23,320
it's unnecessary if it truly is

596
00:22:26,549 --> 00:22:24,960
unnecessary

597
00:22:28,789 --> 00:22:26,559
we can process that in a couple of

598
00:22:30,070 --> 00:22:28,799
different ways one you processed it

599
00:22:33,029 --> 00:22:30,080
personally

600
00:22:35,029 --> 00:22:33,039
as this might not be necessary or it

601
00:22:36,870 --> 00:22:35,039
might not be the way i heard you say it

602
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:36,880
in the story because on your website

603
00:22:41,190 --> 00:22:38,720
also there's this nice little

604
00:22:43,510 --> 00:22:41,200
mini documentary that was done

605
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:43,520
about your immigration experience in

606
00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:45,520
australia people check it out and it's

607
00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:46,480
great

608
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,600
but i saw that as kind of a personal

609
00:22:55,029 --> 00:22:51,600
challenging of

610
00:22:58,390 --> 00:22:55,039
is this necessary must i suffer her like

611
00:23:01,110 --> 00:22:58,400
the virgin mary no i can do more as a

612
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,120
woman i'm intelligent i know i'm smart i

613
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,760
can go i can learn i can go to paris i

614
00:23:08,390 --> 00:23:05,360
can go to all these different places i

615
00:23:11,990 --> 00:23:08,400
can do things what an awesome thing

616
00:23:15,510 --> 00:23:12,000
at the same time i wonder if you

617
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,520
how you process the kind of challenging

618
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:17,760
that necessariness

619
00:23:23,350 --> 00:23:20,640
on the institutional level because if

620
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:23,360
we're going to really tear that down

621
00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:26,559
what is necessary about catholicism if

622
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,760
we look at all the nasty horrible evil

623
00:23:34,470 --> 00:23:31,840
things that have been done by that

624
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:34,480
institution and now we're going to

625
00:23:39,190 --> 00:23:37,679
open up the possibility that they're not

626
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:39,200
necessary

627
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,559
in order to

628
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:42,720
connect with the divine

629
00:23:47,510 --> 00:23:45,679
that has huge implications so that i

630
00:23:49,029 --> 00:23:47,520
think is kind of the starting point but

631
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:49,039
you know where i'm coming with the next

632
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:52,240
part is what's necessary about

633
00:23:56,149 --> 00:23:54,880
tantra but to get there i want to start

634
00:23:58,230 --> 00:23:56,159
with

635
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,240
you know isn't that

636
00:24:02,789 --> 00:24:00,640
your answer your answer you gave the

637
00:24:05,110 --> 00:24:02,799
right answer in my opinion what is

638
00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:05,120
religion it's an unnecessary

639
00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:07,520
intermediary

640
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,320
how far can that take us

641
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:13,200
okay we don't know it's as far as a

642
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:15,840
human and divine potential within us and

643
00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:18,480
i think what it takes it's really

644
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:20,320
i'm not as

645
00:24:24,310 --> 00:24:22,480
interested in dismantling

646
00:24:27,190 --> 00:24:24,320
any institutions i think they'll die of

647
00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:27,200
natural death you know if we do not give

648
00:24:31,909 --> 00:24:29,600
them energy if we do not support them

649
00:24:33,990 --> 00:24:31,919
you know they will die of natural death

650
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:34,000
but i think we have to focus on our own

651
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:36,799
individual which if enough individuals

652
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:38,960
focus on it it will become also a

653
00:24:44,310 --> 00:24:41,760
collective spiritual journey you know so

654
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:44,320
you have to we all have to be absolutely

655
00:24:48,149 --> 00:24:46,480
brave you know wherever the ritual

656
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,159
journey takes us

657
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,559
and and and and we just when we just go

658
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:52,880
there and then we realize you know that

659
00:24:56,310 --> 00:24:54,720
what we're taught is not true and it was

660
00:24:58,630 --> 00:24:56,320
not easy for me you know i was brought

661
00:25:00,789 --> 00:24:58,640
up as a good catholic girl so just going

662
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:00,799
against it you know it was going against

663
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,679
every fiber in my body you know and

664
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:05,120
especially that i studied at the

665
00:25:09,190 --> 00:25:06,799
pontifical institute and i was

666
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:09,200
everybody's favorite you know i was this

667
00:25:12,789 --> 00:25:11,120
smart catholic girl and you know

668
00:25:14,470 --> 00:25:12,799
everybody loved me i had a fantastic

669
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:14,480
experience as a student

670
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,080
you know what i mean like it was like

671
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:17,840
all the doors were open if i stayed

672
00:25:22,149 --> 00:25:20,799
there you know i could go to one regret

673
00:25:24,230 --> 00:25:22,159
i have is that i didn't go to the

674
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:24,240
vatican library you know because i would

675
00:25:27,990 --> 00:25:26,080
have this kind of opportunities you know

676
00:25:29,350 --> 00:25:28,000
to study in the library and see what's

677
00:25:31,269 --> 00:25:29,360
actually there

678
00:25:33,590 --> 00:25:31,279
so it wasn't easy

679
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:33,600
but then it was another realization that

680
00:25:36,470 --> 00:25:34,880
happened that has nothing to do with

681
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,480
tantra when i was sitting in a church

682
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,400
and thinking like you know

683
00:25:42,549 --> 00:25:40,320
i am a sinner forgive me and i think i

684
00:25:44,789 --> 00:25:42,559
had this i am not a sinner

685
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,799
you know why do i have to start from

686
00:25:49,430 --> 00:25:47,279
this sinner point of view you know what

687
00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:49,440
if i am a divine being you know who

688
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:51,679
wants me to be the sinner and actually

689
00:25:56,470 --> 00:25:54,320
you know in in gnostic gospels i think

690
00:25:58,470 --> 00:25:56,480
it's in the gospel of mary magdalene

691
00:26:01,110 --> 00:25:58,480
when i think peter asked a teacher tell

692
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,120
us about the sin and and and the teacher

693
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,360
jesus says there is no sin and then he

694
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:05,440
explains what he means by that

695
00:26:11,750 --> 00:26:07,039
right we just deal with the consequences

696
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,760
of our lower choices basically and so uh

697
00:26:17,190 --> 00:26:14,000
this getting away from the institutions

698
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:17,200
for me is an individual act of supreme

699
00:26:22,070 --> 00:26:19,840
spiritual rebellion and if enough people

700
00:26:23,430 --> 00:26:22,080
do this the institutions will not

701
00:26:26,149 --> 00:26:23,440
survive

702
00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:26,159
right yeah i mean that's but come on you

703
00:26:29,669 --> 00:26:27,520
don't

704
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:29,679
you you've written a book about mary

705
00:26:34,789 --> 00:26:33,600
magdalene why do we why by propping up

706
00:26:37,510 --> 00:26:34,799
these

707
00:26:40,630 --> 00:26:37,520
different figures within this phony

708
00:26:43,590 --> 00:26:40,640
institution how does that

709
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,600
help us i mean if it's purely a a kind

710
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:46,320
of metaphor or story that we can use uh

711
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:49,279
great but it it always becomes more than

712
00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:51,200
that it always like in the book when you

713
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:53,200
even talk about other

714
00:26:57,830 --> 00:26:55,760
goddesses like isis you'll talk about

715
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:57,840
and then you'll say you know even the

716
00:27:03,430 --> 00:27:00,799
early christian fathers of the early

717
00:27:07,750 --> 00:27:03,440
church couldn't dismiss it again we're

718
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,760
propping up what we either have to it

719
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,760
seems to me like we either have to bring

720
00:27:13,750 --> 00:27:12,000
down the scaffolding and bring it all

721
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:13,760
the way down and build it back up and

722
00:27:17,830 --> 00:27:14,880
say okay

723
00:27:20,310 --> 00:27:17,840
what is the reality of that history how

724
00:27:23,830 --> 00:27:20,320
are we supposed to understand it and

725
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,840
then build our understanding of

726
00:27:28,470 --> 00:27:25,520
where you're jumping to the end and say

727
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:28,480
divinity is everywhere it's it's it's at

728
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,640
the tip of our nose it's in everything

729
00:27:34,549 --> 00:27:32,880
it's on everything so then i think the

730
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:34,559
question becomes

731
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:37,360
how do you wind up to be

732
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:40,000
that young woman in that church

733
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:43,440
individually but collectively how do we

734
00:27:49,590 --> 00:27:46,799
all wind up being that person in that

735
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:49,600
church because we all are i mean these

736
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,399
institutions are have enormous influence

737
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,919
i was brought up in greek orthodox

738
00:27:58,630 --> 00:27:55,919
church i looked at the same kind of

739
00:28:00,630 --> 00:27:58,640
iconography uh

740
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,640
the incense you know go kiss the

741
00:28:04,630 --> 00:28:02,799
father's hand and get

742
00:28:06,950 --> 00:28:04,640
mind control i mean if we're really

743
00:28:09,669 --> 00:28:06,960
going to be honest about it that is

744
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:09,679
mind control for a six seven year old

745
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:10,480
kid

746
00:28:14,310 --> 00:28:12,480
don't we need to

747
00:28:16,950 --> 00:28:14,320
it's it's one thing to say gee if we

748
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:16,960
don't give it any energy it'll die it's

749
00:28:21,029 --> 00:28:19,120
been going for thousands of years and it

750
00:28:22,950 --> 00:28:21,039
hasn't stopped

751
00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:22,960
i i completely get your point but i

752
00:28:27,669 --> 00:28:24,960
think we are all collectively evolving

753
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:27,679
spiritually so if we take each of us

754
00:28:31,669 --> 00:28:29,520
takes this different turn then there is

755
00:28:33,430 --> 00:28:31,679
no chance for them and you say and it's

756
00:28:35,190 --> 00:28:33,440
a fair question that i actually didn't

757
00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:35,200
consider before why discuss you know

758
00:28:39,190 --> 00:28:37,360
mary magdalene which is a part of the

759
00:28:42,149 --> 00:28:39,200
you know catholic routine or christian

760
00:28:44,630 --> 00:28:42,159
routine but i wanted to say that even

761
00:28:46,950 --> 00:28:44,640
i see her as she was just framed you

762
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,960
know it's a particular particular

763
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:49,440
archetype and they framed her in a

764
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:52,000
particular way because she was somehow

765
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:53,919
dangerous and i think if she's dangerous

766
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:55,440
perhaps you can learn

767
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:57,120
something from her

768
00:29:00,870 --> 00:28:59,919
do you understand she she i believe that

769
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:00,880
you know

770
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,120
whether historica she's historical or

771
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:05,679
not she's an archetype of some

772
00:29:10,789 --> 00:29:08,320
particular expression of walking away

773
00:29:13,190 --> 00:29:10,799
from brainwashing you know and in

774
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,200
gnostic writings she's the one you know

775
00:29:18,389 --> 00:29:15,600
like that but you know peter represents

776
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,399
uh you know the church and all

777
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:20,240
uh corporations

778
00:29:25,750 --> 00:29:23,360
right like he just says like peter in

779
00:29:28,230 --> 00:29:25,760
his bed and and and and he doesn't

780
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,240
understand you know why she's favored by

781
00:29:32,070 --> 00:29:30,320
by the teacher and and and she

782
00:29:32,789 --> 00:29:32,080
represents for me

783
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,799
and

784
00:29:36,789 --> 00:29:34,960
she represents for me this walking away

785
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:36,799
like she she didn't build the church the

786
00:29:41,269 --> 00:29:39,520
way peter did or paul did she just went

787
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:41,279
she just went to the wilderness or you

788
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,640
know i have my own theories you know

789
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:44,720
which i just enjoyed exploring

790
00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:45,520
but

791
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:47,600
she is really about nauseous about the

792
00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:50,559
inner inner knowing you know exploring

793
00:29:55,269 --> 00:29:52,320
your divine potential so that's why i

794
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,279
felt like so i'm not buying into the

795
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:57,760
catholic or orthodox mary magdalene i

796
00:30:00,549 --> 00:29:58,640
said

797
00:30:03,029 --> 00:30:00,559
what does archetype really suggest and

798
00:30:05,269 --> 00:30:03,039
for me she represents this rebellion

799
00:30:07,110 --> 00:30:05,279
against the structure

800
00:30:10,470 --> 00:30:07,120
and that's fine that's great and i think

801
00:30:12,789 --> 00:30:10,480
the archetypal metaphorical you know

802
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:12,799
joseph campbell kind of you reference in

803
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:15,760
there kind of thing hey awesome and that

804
00:30:21,909 --> 00:30:17,840
can be fulfilling to you

805
00:30:25,350 --> 00:30:21,919
you know spiritually and maybe you can

806
00:30:28,149 --> 00:30:25,360
in inform and motivate other people

807
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:28,159
but at some level there's a there's a

808
00:30:34,389 --> 00:30:31,840
truth there that underpins that that has

809
00:30:35,909 --> 00:30:34,399
to be understood i think before we can

810
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:35,919
go any further you know one of the

811
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:37,200
things we were kind of bouncing around

812
00:30:40,470 --> 00:30:38,880
about kind of in a

813
00:30:43,510 --> 00:30:40,480
i was halfway kidding but halfway

814
00:30:45,669 --> 00:30:43,520
serious was you know the damian eccles

815
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:45,679
and the mitch horowitz thing so it's

816
00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:47,279
like

817
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:49,520
the damian eccles thing

818
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:52,080
is kind of much more relevant to your

819
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:52,960
work

820
00:30:57,509 --> 00:30:56,080
in a way that takes about four jumps for

821
00:30:59,830 --> 00:30:57,519
people to get to

822
00:31:02,149 --> 00:30:59,840
so damien eccles is

823
00:31:04,870 --> 00:31:02,159
west memphis three

824
00:31:07,430 --> 00:31:04,880
johnny depp gets him out of prison they

825
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:07,440
do this documentary and he gets released

826
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,799
from prison

827
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:11,039
he was a guy who along with two of his

828
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:12,320
friends

829
00:31:18,310 --> 00:31:15,679
they raped and then murdered these three

830
00:31:19,590 --> 00:31:18,320
little kids these kids are eight nine

831
00:31:21,350 --> 00:31:19,600
ten years old

832
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:21,360
they were convicted of that by two

833
00:31:24,950 --> 00:31:22,720
different juries

834
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:24,960
they were never exonerated that's a

835
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:27,200
misunderstanding people have

836
00:31:30,549 --> 00:31:29,600
but they were released through a deal

837
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:30,559
with the

838
00:31:34,310 --> 00:31:32,399
arkansas you know i had had him for 20

839
00:31:37,269 --> 00:31:34,320
years and was unsure whether they could

840
00:31:39,669 --> 00:31:37,279
overcome it another retrial so anyways

841
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,679
but the reason why

842
00:31:42,630 --> 00:31:41,440
he raped and killed those three little

843
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:42,640
kids

844
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,600
was revealed by damien when the police

845
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:47,760
interrogated him the police did a good

846
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:50,480
trick this is the trick that police

847
00:31:55,830 --> 00:31:53,120
around the world do they said

848
00:31:57,669 --> 00:31:55,840
damien wayne no you didn't do this crime

849
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:57,679
but who did it

850
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,399
and the first thing goes well satanic

851
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,480
he goes i think it was satanic

852
00:32:06,470 --> 00:32:04,720
because you know they urinated in the

853
00:32:09,350 --> 00:32:06,480
kids mouths and they did some other

854
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:09,360
things which no one knew about they

855
00:32:12,389 --> 00:32:10,880
hadn't released for anything so he's

856
00:32:14,230 --> 00:32:12,399
kind of

857
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:14,240
like all good police detectives are

858
00:32:18,070 --> 00:32:15,440
looking for someone to give him

859
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:18,080
information that implicates himself

860
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:19,440
which he did

861
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:21,360
but i'm kind of diving around the point

862
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,000
there the reason that he chose to murder

863
00:32:28,389 --> 00:32:26,240
this eight-year-old kid and to perform

864
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,399
this sex act on him

865
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:30,720
was because he was a he was trying to do

866
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:32,320
sex magic

867
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,440
inspiration

868
00:32:43,590 --> 00:32:40,320
aleister crowley had laid out in his

869
00:32:46,549 --> 00:32:43,600
books and he said the most preferred

870
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:46,559
object of your sex magic would be a

871
00:32:52,389 --> 00:32:49,600
young boy about eight years old right

872
00:32:53,750 --> 00:32:52,399
that's what he said so the point then

873
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,760
becomes

874
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:55,200
is that real

875
00:33:02,870 --> 00:32:58,720
is that somehow connected to the same

876
00:33:05,830 --> 00:33:02,880
wisdom of the hindu tantric tradition

877
00:33:08,470 --> 00:33:05,840
or is it just some messed up kid in

878
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:08,480
arkansas who reads some book

879
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,799
well we we can't really dismiss that way

880
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:13,200
either because aleister crowley was for

881
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:15,360
real about it i mean anyone who reads

882
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:18,399
the alistar crowley biography knows he

883
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:21,120
was doing all that stuff and he was

884
00:33:25,110 --> 00:33:22,559
probably doing

885
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:25,120
the stuff with kids and maybe it even

886
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,159
went as far as damien did but they were

887
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,440
doing that in an effort to tap into

888
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:34,080
that same energy you're talking about

889
00:33:37,830 --> 00:33:35,760
now they're tapping into it in a very

890
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:37,840
different way in a negative way which

891
00:33:43,430 --> 00:33:40,480
raises a whole bunch of questions

892
00:33:45,430 --> 00:33:43,440
but the question then becomes

893
00:33:48,230 --> 00:33:45,440
is it necessary

894
00:33:50,389 --> 00:33:48,240
is that what's necessary he thought it

895
00:33:52,630 --> 00:33:50,399
was necessary

896
00:33:55,269 --> 00:33:52,640
aleister crowley had convinced him that

897
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:55,279
that was necessary

898
00:34:01,509 --> 00:33:58,799
ritual in order to tap into that energy

899
00:34:04,950 --> 00:34:01,519
so when we get into sex magic it's very

900
00:34:06,789 --> 00:34:04,960
very tricky and can go very very dark

901
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:06,799
no that's a legitimate question alex

902
00:34:11,510 --> 00:34:09,280
thank you so and it's not easy to deal

903
00:34:14,389 --> 00:34:11,520
with so uh

904
00:34:16,149 --> 00:34:14,399
it's not necessary to do this right

905
00:34:18,629 --> 00:34:16,159
there are methods

906
00:34:20,550 --> 00:34:18,639
each method has a dark side to this and

907
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:20,560
unfortunately i think it is what i don't

908
00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:22,800
understand why people focus on this kind

909
00:34:28,389 --> 00:34:26,560
of methods you can achieve uh

910
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,399
expansion of consciousness not only for

911
00:34:32,470 --> 00:34:30,320
tantra and not not only from this style

912
00:34:35,030 --> 00:34:32,480
i wouldn't even call it tantra you know

913
00:34:35,829 --> 00:34:35,040
through this kind of experiences

914
00:34:37,589 --> 00:34:35,839
uh

915
00:34:39,750 --> 00:34:37,599
but there are other ways of achieving it

916
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:39,760
but i see because there is a dark side

917
00:34:43,030 --> 00:34:40,800
to it

918
00:34:44,869 --> 00:34:43,040
i do not explore it i just very briefly

919
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:44,879
mentioned about you know the dark side

920
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:48,000
of this i decided to cut it out you know

921
00:34:52,550 --> 00:34:50,639
because i think there's enough focus on

922
00:34:55,510 --> 00:34:52,560
this but what you're saying i don't know

923
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:55,520
enough about this man but if he indeed

924
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:57,599
did it and you know and if it is indeed

925
00:35:00,790 --> 00:34:59,119
proved then

926
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:00,800
this is uh

927
00:35:06,790 --> 00:35:04,000
this is horrible misuse you know and i

928
00:35:08,630 --> 00:35:06,800
understand that this is a dangerous path

929
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:08,640
and that's why some of this works like

930
00:35:16,870 --> 00:35:15,349
chapter 29 it was really written not

931
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,880
only that it was written in sanskrit

932
00:35:21,510 --> 00:35:18,960
which was you know obviously

933
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:21,520
the educated language at the time in in

934
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,480
india

935
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:25,440
but it was written in in coding because

936
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:27,119
only people

937
00:35:33,829 --> 00:35:31,920
who were chosen by a evolved teacher who

938
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:33,839
would be allowed to do this isn't that

939
00:35:39,349 --> 00:35:36,720
starting to sound a lot like that guy in

940
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:39,359
the vatican who wears that crazy hat and

941
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:41,520
turns out a lot of his people like to

942
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,760
rape little kids too you know where hey

943
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:46,320
we have this super secret ritual that

944
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:48,800
only the in the same thing in the greek

945
00:35:52,710 --> 00:35:51,680
orthodox church you know no one's

946
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:52,720
it's it's

947
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:56,240
basic mind control it's cult training

948
00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:00,800
101 secret society secret ritual only

949
00:36:06,950 --> 00:36:03,320
the knowing do it

950
00:36:08,950 --> 00:36:06,960
unnecessary it's everywhere the divine

951
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,960
is right there on the tip of our nose

952
00:36:13,470 --> 00:36:10,880
right why do we want to

953
00:36:17,030 --> 00:36:13,480
why do we want to introduce

954
00:36:20,310 --> 00:36:17,040
unnecessary intermediary steps don't we

955
00:36:23,190 --> 00:36:20,320
want to disintermediate so

956
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:23,200
you stumble across it if you do it like

957
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:25,119
you're doing it's good to be aware of it

958
00:36:30,870 --> 00:36:28,320
i understand that and and i understand

959
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,880
the the power of metaphor that you're

960
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:32,560
bringing forward

961
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:33,440
but

962
00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:36,079
i guess i'm going to push back on i i

963
00:36:41,990 --> 00:36:39,599
think it's a misstep to suggest that

964
00:36:44,310 --> 00:36:42,000
well you're not suggesting it but i i

965
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:44,320
for someone to lead someone down a path

966
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,200
to say hey this is a a shortcut or this

967
00:36:52,870 --> 00:36:50,400
is like a good way to go it's like

968
00:36:55,109 --> 00:36:52,880
it misses the larger point of what you

969
00:36:57,510 --> 00:36:55,119
said so beautifully divinity is

970
00:36:59,589 --> 00:36:57,520
everywhere in everything

971
00:37:02,069 --> 00:36:59,599
when we talk about it

972
00:37:04,950 --> 00:37:02,079
from one particular perspective of the

973
00:37:07,270 --> 00:37:04,960
divinity of sexuality then do we

974
00:37:10,310 --> 00:37:07,280
tend to lose focus on the divinity of

975
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:10,320
nature or the divinity of family or the

976
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,839
divinity of just your ordinary washing

977
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:15,680
the dishes

978
00:37:20,150 --> 00:37:18,160
oh absolutely not i just decided to

979
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:20,160
focus on sexuality because there is so

980
00:37:24,310 --> 00:37:22,079
much darkness around it so i said okay

981
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:24,320
why don't i address it why don't i bring

982
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,760
it into light

983
00:37:30,230 --> 00:37:28,079
you know because we cannot just

984
00:37:32,950 --> 00:37:30,240
endlessly push it to the side and let

985
00:37:34,870 --> 00:37:32,960
the perverts you know practice it and so

986
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:34,880
on i just said okay so how can we look

987
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,200
it in a positive way that it we can

988
00:37:41,349 --> 00:37:39,200
integrate it into our lives but but in

989
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:41,359
no way i suggest that people should

990
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,839
practice some tantric rituals you know

991
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:46,079
especially some dark ones i even don't

992
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:47,920
practice them i just had an experience

993
00:37:53,430 --> 00:37:51,280
that was very spontaneous and i didn't

994
00:37:55,670 --> 00:37:53,440
plan to do this it just happens you know

995
00:37:58,230 --> 00:37:55,680
but maybe i studied it so much and and i

996
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:58,240
call it the act of grace and because i

997
00:38:02,310 --> 00:38:00,240
experienced it in such a beautiful way i

998
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:02,320
believed i had to share it you know i

999
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:04,560
chose to share it maybe i don't have to

1000
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,640
but that doesn't mean that it takes away

1001
00:38:10,710 --> 00:38:08,560
from anything else i just couldn't i

1002
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:10,720
cannot it's a small book i cannot write

1003
00:38:15,910 --> 00:38:12,880
about everything but you are very right

1004
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:15,920
you can experience divinity in any way

1005
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,240
so it doesn't have to be sexual way i

1006
00:38:22,630 --> 00:38:20,400
just say we cannot keep it in darkness

1007
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:22,640
because it didn't mean us and i think

1008
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:24,560
that this the secret powers that you're

1009
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:25,760
talking about

1010
00:38:29,670 --> 00:38:27,520
you know they they want to do demean

1011
00:38:31,270 --> 00:38:29,680
this part like they wanted to demean for

1012
00:38:34,069 --> 00:38:31,280
example mary magdalene and other

1013
00:38:36,790 --> 00:38:34,079
goddesses and then my question is why

1014
00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:36,800
there must be some liberating power in

1015
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:39,520
it and we have to claim it but in our

1016
00:38:44,550 --> 00:38:42,480
own way not through darkness but through

1017
00:38:46,470 --> 00:38:44,560
light but you're absolutely right i

1018
00:38:48,230 --> 00:38:46,480
wouldn't advise anyone just you know use

1019
00:38:50,550 --> 00:38:48,240
some sexual um

1020
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:50,560
rituals you know to to

1021
00:38:54,870 --> 00:38:52,720
get high on consciousness because this

1022
00:38:56,150 --> 00:38:54,880
is not what it is about

1023
00:38:57,589 --> 00:38:56,160
and i certainly don't want to

1024
00:38:59,589 --> 00:38:57,599
misrepresent your book because your book

1025
00:39:01,750 --> 00:38:59,599
doesn't come across like that at all i

1026
00:39:05,109 --> 00:39:01,760
mean it is extremely

1027
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,119
positive and affirming and giving us

1028
00:39:09,910 --> 00:39:07,440
new ways of understanding

1029
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:09,920
the human condition that is

1030
00:39:16,710 --> 00:39:13,599
sexuality and female sexuality that

1031
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:16,720
there's so much legitimacy to

1032
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:18,800
you know in the in in this cancel

1033
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:20,880
culture that we live in and in this

1034
00:39:26,069 --> 00:39:23,040
transhumanist culture that we live in

1035
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,079
which is denying the feminine is a as a

1036
00:39:30,470 --> 00:39:28,800
kind of roundabout twisted other twisted

1037
00:39:33,349 --> 00:39:30,480
way right so you know we can look at

1038
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:33,359
aleister crowley and twisting sexuality

1039
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:34,640
into its

1040
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,440
kind of the the dark left-hand path of

1041
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:39,280
it but then we have the other and you

1042
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:41,040
even touch this touch on this in the

1043
00:39:44,710 --> 00:39:43,119
book and your chapter on technology i

1044
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:44,720
don't know if you go all the way to the

1045
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:47,280
transhumanist stuff but maybe you want

1046
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:49,280
to speak to that because that's another

1047
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:50,400
way of

1048
00:39:55,829 --> 00:39:52,800
twisting and distorting this sexuality

1049
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:55,839
is to completely to deny it and to do

1050
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:57,760
you know the rapper who

1051
00:40:01,910 --> 00:40:00,560
identifies as a woman for 30 minutes so

1052
00:40:03,990 --> 00:40:01,920
he can set the

1053
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:04,000
deadlifting record and then identify his

1054
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:06,000
back as a man i thought that was

1055
00:40:11,349 --> 00:40:08,800
well played but it gets at this deeper

1056
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:11,359
thing of what's going on in terms of

1057
00:40:16,710 --> 00:40:14,800
trying to twist our understanding of

1058
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,720
who we are as as

1059
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:18,880
human beings

1060
00:40:23,190 --> 00:40:21,359
that's an excellent statement alex so

1061
00:40:25,750 --> 00:40:23,200
perhaps i would maybe start explaining

1062
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:25,760
but i'm not even talking about the women

1063
00:40:30,710 --> 00:40:28,079
and men i'm talking about masculine and

1064
00:40:33,030 --> 00:40:30,720
feminine energies and i'm very young

1065
00:40:35,030 --> 00:40:33,040
about it so i mean like we have we both

1066
00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:35,040
have you know masculine and feminine

1067
00:40:41,109 --> 00:40:38,640
energies animals and anima within us and

1068
00:40:43,430 --> 00:40:41,119
i think that so it's not against men by

1069
00:40:46,710 --> 00:40:43,440
any means you know i love men i i love

1070
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,720
my you know husband and so on but what

1071
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,720
i'm saying is that this ah

1072
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:50,800
civilization and i don't think it was a

1073
00:40:56,069 --> 00:40:52,480
natural movement i think it was a

1074
00:40:57,430 --> 00:40:56,079
control movement by someone you know

1075
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,440
that

1076
00:41:01,990 --> 00:40:59,680
but we moved too much in one direction

1077
00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:02,000
which is this kind of rational type of

1078
00:41:05,829 --> 00:41:04,000
mind you know which is very logical

1079
00:41:08,069 --> 00:41:05,839
which is very cause and effect which is

1080
00:41:10,230 --> 00:41:08,079
very technological which takes us now to

1081
00:41:12,870 --> 00:41:10,240
transhumanism which i think is very

1082
00:41:14,150 --> 00:41:12,880
scary you know i think transhumanism is

1083
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:14,160
something that we really have to

1084
00:41:18,710 --> 00:41:16,240
consider nowadays

1085
00:41:20,950 --> 00:41:18,720
and that we somehow on the way and i

1086
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:20,960
think it was systematic this other which

1087
00:41:25,990 --> 00:41:23,440
i call feminine but both men and women

1088
00:41:27,829 --> 00:41:26,000
have it form of intelligence of

1089
00:41:30,550 --> 00:41:27,839
consciousness was

1090
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:30,560
consciously repressed by someone and

1091
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,599
this intelligence shows us that

1092
00:41:37,430 --> 00:41:35,680
you know unity of everything the

1093
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,440
divinity in everything that you were

1094
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,000
talking about and perhaps completely

1095
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:42,240
different way of evolving without you

1096
00:41:48,230 --> 00:41:45,200
know uh neuraling in your mind which i

1097
00:41:51,270 --> 00:41:48,240
think actually is completely evil and it

1098
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:51,280
it will i worry that it may stop a

1099
00:41:55,589 --> 00:41:53,440
spiritual evolution although personally

1100
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:55,599
i believe that spiritual practice can

1101
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:57,839
overcome anything but it is another

1102
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,599
obstacle let's put it

1103
00:42:04,309 --> 00:42:02,000
so i think that this form of

1104
00:42:05,910 --> 00:42:04,319
intelligence which unfortunately we call

1105
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,920
masculine but i prefer to call it

1106
00:42:09,829 --> 00:42:07,520
logical or this

1107
00:42:12,390 --> 00:42:09,839
rational mind which okay it gave us some

1108
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,400
you know good things and tools and so on

1109
00:42:18,150 --> 00:42:15,119
but it's extremely limiting and it's not

1110
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:18,160
serving us anymore and we are taking it

1111
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,319
way too far and we are forgetting this

1112
00:42:24,390 --> 00:42:22,640
other form of energy which is you can

1113
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:24,400
call it goddess consciousness or some

1114
00:42:28,710 --> 00:42:26,400
people are more comfortable with christ

1115
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:28,720
consciousness this more holistic way of

1116
00:42:33,349 --> 00:42:30,960
perceiving things which focuses on

1117
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:33,359
spirit and the divinity of everything

1118
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,680
and we left it behind so part of the

1119
00:42:40,470 --> 00:42:37,760
book is looking into this you know

1120
00:42:41,349 --> 00:42:40,480
why why all of us whoever represents

1121
00:42:45,430 --> 00:42:41,359
this

1122
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:45,440
pushed to a side and i'm not saying even

1123
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:47,119
that all of these goddesses were great

1124
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:49,200
or anything like that but um they are

1125
00:42:53,430 --> 00:42:51,040
represented often as you know in the

1126
00:42:55,829 --> 00:42:53,440
book as as

1127
00:42:58,150 --> 00:42:55,839
as kind of guardians before different

1128
00:42:59,190 --> 00:42:58,160
portals between death and life between

1129
00:43:01,670 --> 00:42:59,200
uh

1130
00:43:02,870 --> 00:43:01,680
you know evolution you know or going

1131
00:43:05,109 --> 00:43:02,880
from

1132
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:05,119
transcendence you know

1133
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:07,440
they hold the the reed which supposed to

1134
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:09,119
be a form of a portal that one of the

1135
00:43:12,230 --> 00:43:10,480
goddesses

1136
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:12,240
you know is always portrayed with and

1137
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:14,880
most of them including mary magdalene

1138
00:43:18,790 --> 00:43:16,240
when you think like

1139
00:43:20,710 --> 00:43:18,800
we lost something on the way and in fact

1140
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:20,720
i think that it was uh

1141
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,079
intentionally repressed and demean and

1142
00:43:27,829 --> 00:43:26,240
we have to reclaim it because we

1143
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,839
completely are going in the wrong

1144
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,240
direction and you know transhumanism i

1145
00:43:33,910 --> 00:43:32,640
agree with you this is a super scary

1146
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:33,920
stuff

1147
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,000
and and and i hope we will never go

1148
00:43:39,990 --> 00:43:38,240
there but i think it is probably unless

1149
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:40,000
there is some technological disaster

1150
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:43,440
some war some some people hope for some

1151
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,400
solar flare or something destroys that

1152
00:43:49,829 --> 00:43:48,480
but if it doesn't happen you know we

1153
00:43:57,510 --> 00:43:49,839
have to

1154
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:57,520
our spiritual tools

1155
00:44:02,470 --> 00:43:59,599
you know i i gotta say i kind of

1156
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:02,480
appreciated the i don't know woman's

1157
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:06,000
perspective in the book and that and uh

1158
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:08,000
and really bring because i i get what

1159
00:44:12,630 --> 00:44:10,240
you're saying you know the it's not just

1160
00:44:15,750 --> 00:44:12,640
about women versus men and there's the

1161
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:15,760
divinity and feminine and masculine but

1162
00:44:19,270 --> 00:44:17,440
it's like no

1163
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,280
hats off to you for coming and saying

1164
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:21,680
you know hey really understand at this

1165
00:44:28,150 --> 00:44:24,880
deeper spiritual level what goes along

1166
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:28,160
with being a woman on this journey and

1167
00:44:31,829 --> 00:44:30,240
especially from a historical perspective

1168
00:44:33,589 --> 00:44:31,839
because that's what mary magdalene gives

1169
00:44:36,069 --> 00:44:33,599
us and that's what these other goddesses

1170
00:44:37,190 --> 00:44:36,079
give us and there is there

1171
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,200
your

1172
00:44:39,750 --> 00:44:38,880
there are differences

1173
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:39,760
okay

1174
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:42,000
you know there are differences and

1175
00:44:46,550 --> 00:44:44,319
you're talking about those differences

1176
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:46,560
and then you're talking about how they

1177
00:44:52,150 --> 00:44:50,400
play in this theater that we're in so

1178
00:44:55,109 --> 00:44:52,160
i thought that was great and i think

1179
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,119
when we contrast that with the

1180
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:57,760
transhumanist agenda and the

1181
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:00,720
technocrat agenda um

1182
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:03,599
there it really draws clear

1183
00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,400
the lines there and it it there's this

1184
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,040
cultural part of it that just kind of a

1185
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:11,119
joke that's been going on in academia

1186
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:13,599
for the longest time the wokeness kind

1187
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,359
of thing and the political correctness

1188
00:45:19,589 --> 00:45:17,440
thing and that's one path and then

1189
00:45:21,270 --> 00:45:19,599
there's this transhumanist path that i

1190
00:45:24,870 --> 00:45:21,280
think really caught a lot of people by

1191
00:45:27,190 --> 00:45:24,880
surprise in just saying well

1192
00:45:29,510 --> 00:45:27,200
it's about e.t you two talk diana boss

1193
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,520
pasulko we'll have to talk about her uh

1194
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:31,280
you know it's kind of

1195
00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:35,440
et it's the matrix it's the

1196
00:45:37,670 --> 00:45:36,720
uh

1197
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:37,680
you know

1198
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:41,359
cyborg kind of thing it's elon musk and

1199
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:42,800
you're going to be neural linked it's

1200
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:44,960
all that stuff is just coming at us and

1201
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,319
at the same time people are still

1202
00:45:50,390 --> 00:45:48,319
recovering from the political

1203
00:45:51,349 --> 00:45:50,400
correctness woke stuff

1204
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:51,359
and

1205
00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:52,640
i wonder

1206
00:45:57,750 --> 00:45:55,280
what you think about about some of that

1207
00:45:58,710 --> 00:45:57,760
you know i i always kind of thought that

1208
00:46:01,349 --> 00:45:58,720
the

1209
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,359
you know go woke go broke thing is so

1210
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:03,760
true but what a lot of people didn't see

1211
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,640
is it's also true spiritually

1212
00:46:12,790 --> 00:46:09,440
go go broke spiritually you know what i

1213
00:46:15,349 --> 00:46:12,800
mean if everything is relativism if

1214
00:46:16,470 --> 00:46:15,359
there is nothing to stand on

1215
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:16,480
then

1216
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:17,920
how do you

1217
00:46:21,750 --> 00:46:19,839
connect with that

1218
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:21,760
moral imperative that really drives

1219
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:24,560
spirituality the decision to do the

1220
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:26,880
right thing to be good

1221
00:46:31,349 --> 00:46:30,160
uh that that doesn't come that doesn't

1222
00:46:33,589 --> 00:46:31,359
work if

1223
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:33,599
well everything is relative everyone

1224
00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,599
hasn't there's really no right or wrong

1225
00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:37,119
and you know

1226
00:46:41,829 --> 00:46:40,240
maturity kind of thing uh you know i i

1227
00:46:43,349 --> 00:46:41,839
just what do you think about that the

1228
00:46:44,230 --> 00:46:43,359
wokeness

1229
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:44,240
well

1230
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:47,359
it is actually a very confusing topic

1231
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:49,200
because on the i have conversations with

1232
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,720
my mother who is you know obviously much

1233
00:46:54,309 --> 00:46:52,240
more conservative and it's just way too

1234
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:54,319
much for her right

1235
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,079
and and i was trying to explain but

1236
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:58,319
perhaps some of us

1237
00:47:01,910 --> 00:47:00,079
some of us and you probably disagree is

1238
00:47:04,470 --> 00:47:01,920
that some people who were different in

1239
00:47:05,589 --> 00:47:04,480
any way so for example you were gay or

1240
00:47:06,390 --> 00:47:05,599
you know you

1241
00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:06,400
or

1242
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,560
they they had no voice in society they

1243
00:47:12,950 --> 00:47:10,400
had to pretend who they are

1244
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:12,960
so now they claim the identity and i

1245
00:47:17,430 --> 00:47:14,960
think that's appropriate and i think

1246
00:47:20,230 --> 00:47:17,440
that sometimes possibly and it's just a

1247
00:47:22,390 --> 00:47:20,240
matter of balance if you know they go

1248
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:22,400
maybe too far because they said you know

1249
00:47:25,910 --> 00:47:24,160
you know we were repressed for forever

1250
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,920
and now look at me and this is what we

1251
00:47:30,069 --> 00:47:27,839
do and you know they try to shock you

1252
00:47:32,950 --> 00:47:30,079
because they want the acceptance and you

1253
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:32,960
know and and that's appropriate however

1254
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:35,280
the whole thing about and maybe and i

1255
00:47:39,270 --> 00:47:37,040
think there is i'm probably exposing

1256
00:47:40,870 --> 00:47:39,280
myself for so much criticism there is a

1257
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:40,880
probably a small

1258
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:44,160
number of people that feel you know that

1259
00:47:47,190 --> 00:47:45,040
they're

1260
00:47:49,670 --> 00:47:47,200
wrong person in the wrong body

1261
00:47:51,910 --> 00:47:49,680
i have no experience with this but from

1262
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:51,920
what i read it's you know probably a

1263
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,680
small part of population and the rest i

1264
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:57,599
am just

1265
00:48:01,430 --> 00:48:00,559
very skeptical and maybe very

1266
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:01,440
even

1267
00:48:08,390 --> 00:48:05,119
shocked i don't want to say shocked but

1268
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:08,400
amazed in a way like what's going on so

1269
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,079
again i'm going to say something that is

1270
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:11,760
probably very controversial but i think

1271
00:48:15,589 --> 00:48:12,960
a man

1272
00:48:17,829 --> 00:48:15,599
identifying as a woman and participating

1273
00:48:20,309 --> 00:48:17,839
in women's sports and destroying it i

1274
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:20,319
cannot support it why do we have to kind

1275
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,040
of put people to a test like that i mean

1276
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,599
it's ridiculous to even say okay dr

1277
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:27,599
joanna what do you think about that

1278
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,559
particular issue it it doesn't matter

1279
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:32,400
i think you the path

1280
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:35,119
through this is as you said is the

1281
00:48:38,950 --> 00:48:37,760
spiritual path is that everything is

1282
00:48:41,589 --> 00:48:38,960
divine

1283
00:48:43,670 --> 00:48:41,599
so to the extent that you think god made

1284
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:43,680
a mistake with your body

1285
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:46,079
okay maybe god made a mistake with your

1286
00:48:51,030 --> 00:48:48,720
body we don't know but it's still your

1287
00:48:53,589 --> 00:48:51,040
journey it's your journey to figure out

1288
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:53,599
one way or another it's not the state's

1289
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:56,800
journey it's not the medical industry's

1290
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,160
journey it's your personal spiritual

1291
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,480
journey so all the rest of it is just

1292
00:49:07,309 --> 00:49:05,040
[\h__\h] and i think that i i'm with you

1293
00:49:09,109 --> 00:49:07,319
in terms of the way that it's

1294
00:49:12,870 --> 00:49:09,119
manufactured and the way that it's

1295
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,880
elevated and put in our face and and

1296
00:49:17,510 --> 00:49:14,960
pushed to the front of

1297
00:49:20,309 --> 00:49:17,520
consciousness and social issues is

1298
00:49:23,109 --> 00:49:20,319
highly highly suspect because it just

1299
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:23,119
isn't that controversial in the same way

1300
00:49:29,990 --> 00:49:26,640
that it isn't controversial to say that

1301
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:30,000
women were treated horribly by our

1302
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:33,280
culture for the longest time my you know

1303
00:49:37,589 --> 00:49:34,880
my generation

1304
00:49:40,230 --> 00:49:37,599
immediately before my mother

1305
00:49:41,589 --> 00:49:40,240
she was very artistic she was very

1306
00:49:42,829 --> 00:49:41,599
creative

1307
00:49:46,230 --> 00:49:42,839
she had no

1308
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:46,240
options be a secretary be a nurse be a

1309
00:49:50,950 --> 00:49:49,119
teacher that was it

1310
00:49:52,790 --> 00:49:50,960
that's not right

1311
00:49:55,910 --> 00:49:52,800
we don't need a women's studies

1312
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:55,920
department to tell us that isn't right

1313
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:57,599
we need

1314
00:50:01,589 --> 00:49:59,599
a connection with

1315
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:01,599
the divinity to see it all around us and

1316
00:50:05,109 --> 00:50:03,280
to see that she was

1317
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:05,119
leading a rich spiritual life and that

1318
00:50:09,510 --> 00:50:06,800
she should be able to do that in the way

1319
00:50:12,390 --> 00:50:09,520
that she thought so it does seem and

1320
00:50:14,790 --> 00:50:12,400
that is it does seem manufactured

1321
00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:14,800
and it does seem to be primarily a

1322
00:50:20,230 --> 00:50:17,440
social engineering control project

1323
00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:20,240
political operation project rather than

1324
00:50:25,990 --> 00:50:24,160
a genuine kind of thing in my opinion

1325
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:26,000
you know i think that it perhaps is the

1326
00:50:30,150 --> 00:50:27,680
same what happened for example to

1327
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,160
christianity which means you know there

1328
00:50:34,630 --> 00:50:32,079
is a and i don't know what's wrong with

1329
00:50:36,549 --> 00:50:34,640
our social structures

1330
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:36,559
throughout human history but you know we

1331
00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:37,920
know of human history because it's

1332
00:50:41,750 --> 00:50:39,760
probably longer than you know academics

1333
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:41,760
and archaeologists tell us

1334
00:50:46,390 --> 00:50:44,400
but it starts with a

1335
00:50:48,470 --> 00:50:46,400
original

1336
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,480
white hot experience spiritual

1337
00:50:52,549 --> 00:50:50,559
experience like you know as people

1338
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:52,559
around jesus had you know which is

1339
00:50:56,230 --> 00:50:54,240
experience of christ consciousness and

1340
00:50:58,309 --> 00:50:56,240
so on and then

1341
00:51:01,430 --> 00:50:58,319
the structures the social structures

1342
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:01,440
take control of it and it becomes this

1343
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,400
thing

1344
00:51:06,829 --> 00:51:04,000
that you know now we are talking like

1345
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:06,839
catholic church or any church really you

1346
00:51:10,710 --> 00:51:09,599
know and or any religion because you

1347
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:10,720
know i went through the journey you

1348
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:12,079
think you go to another religion and

1349
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:13,599
it's better there you know and then just

1350
00:51:16,710 --> 00:51:15,119
stay there long enough and you see the

1351
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,720
same abuse right

1352
00:51:20,549 --> 00:51:18,960
but and the same brainwashing

1353
00:51:23,030 --> 00:51:20,559
but so i think this is what happened

1354
00:51:25,990 --> 00:51:23,040
probably with uh you know what you call

1355
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:26,000
walk movement that there was a genuine i

1356
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:26,800
think

1357
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:29,760
desire to express you know i i deserve

1358
00:51:34,630 --> 00:51:32,000
to be loved and accepted in society like

1359
00:51:37,190 --> 00:51:34,640
everyone else just because you know i'm

1360
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:37,200
not in the majority sexually or my

1361
00:51:42,790 --> 00:51:39,760
sexual orientation or of my choices i

1362
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:42,800
deserve it and that we have to respect

1363
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:45,280
but then and i completely respect it you

1364
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,480
know and these people imagine like being

1365
00:51:53,270 --> 00:51:50,640
transgender or you know gay even like

1366
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,280
100 years ago never mind you know so so

1367
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,280
so so this has to be acknowledged these

1368
00:51:58,870 --> 00:51:56,720
people should have voice but when

1369
00:52:01,910 --> 00:51:58,880
somebody's using it the way that

1370
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:01,920
original teachings of every great being

1371
00:52:06,069 --> 00:52:03,040
you know

1372
00:52:08,710 --> 00:52:06,079
jesus buddha or whatever avatars or you

1373
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:08,720
know how they embodied in in human

1374
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:11,520
consciousness were used by

1375
00:52:14,950 --> 00:52:13,200
you know this what you call social

1376
00:52:17,109 --> 00:52:14,960
engineering which is actually very

1377
00:52:20,069 --> 00:52:17,119
astutely put and and the question is you

1378
00:52:22,150 --> 00:52:20,079
know yes it's definitely used because

1379
00:52:23,750 --> 00:52:22,160
it's blown out of proportion instead of

1380
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,760
you know like individual respect for

1381
00:52:26,549 --> 00:52:25,599
everybody's differences it turned into

1382
00:52:28,630 --> 00:52:26,559
this

1383
00:52:31,510 --> 00:52:28,640
weird thing which actually in my

1384
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,520
personal opinion is actually the

1385
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,680
demeaning the original impulse you know

1386
00:52:38,790 --> 00:52:35,440
i just want to be loved and accept and

1387
00:52:40,470 --> 00:52:38,800
it's made into this weird social thing

1388
00:52:42,549 --> 00:52:40,480
the the other thing that i've run into

1389
00:52:44,309 --> 00:52:42,559
and i'd be interested in your

1390
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:44,319
perspective on this because you have

1391
00:52:51,589 --> 00:52:48,720
spent so much time within the

1392
00:52:52,390 --> 00:52:51,599
religious academic community is that

1393
00:52:54,870 --> 00:52:52,400
they

1394
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:54,880
have to kind of take part of the blame

1395
00:52:57,190 --> 00:52:56,000
for this

1396
00:53:01,990 --> 00:52:57,200
because

1397
00:53:05,270 --> 00:53:02,000
you are so beautifully spiritually first

1398
00:53:07,990 --> 00:53:05,280
you put spirituality at the center and

1399
00:53:09,750 --> 00:53:08,000
then everything comes out of that

1400
00:53:13,589 --> 00:53:09,760
religious studies

1401
00:53:15,910 --> 00:53:13,599
has for the longest time got away with

1402
00:53:18,549 --> 00:53:15,920
putting spirituality in the back seat or

1403
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,559
not even in the in the bus you know

1404
00:53:23,270 --> 00:53:20,800
spirituality is like

1405
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,280
the fundamental question like another

1406
00:53:27,349 --> 00:53:25,680
survey question i asked you

1407
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,359
consciousness

1408
00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:29,359
and you went the you know it's a

1409
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,599
scientific question you went again with

1410
00:53:36,069 --> 00:53:33,440
the right answer max planck

1411
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,079
consciousness is fundamental everything

1412
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:38,319
is consciousness and it grows off of

1413
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:39,119
that

1414
00:53:43,910 --> 00:53:41,040
i remember a few years ago i this guy

1415
00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,920
becomes he's such a good guy a timeford

1416
00:53:47,510 --> 00:53:45,440
guy too he's interested in tantric

1417
00:53:49,030 --> 00:53:47,520
studies and stuff like that but he gets

1418
00:53:51,030 --> 00:53:49,040
kicked around on this show for the one

1419
00:53:52,630 --> 00:53:51,040
appearance that he made his name is hugh

1420
00:53:54,549 --> 00:53:52,640
urban

1421
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:54,559
religious studies ohio state university

1422
00:53:57,829 --> 00:53:56,240
respected professor wrote a book on

1423
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:57,839
scientology

1424
00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:01,200
and what i really picked on him about is

1425
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:02,880
he tells

1426
00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:05,839
the now famous story about elrond

1427
00:54:11,190 --> 00:54:09,520
hubbard the founder of scientology and

1428
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:11,200
jack parsons

1429
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:12,720
out in the desert

1430
00:54:16,069 --> 00:54:14,240
doing the

1431
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:16,079
sex magic ritual

1432
00:54:19,670 --> 00:54:18,000
[\h__\h] of babylon thing to bring forth

1433
00:54:22,309 --> 00:54:19,680
the antichrist

1434
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:22,319
and again alistair crowley connection

1435
00:54:26,549 --> 00:54:24,720
again that guy gets a lot of play

1436
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:26,559
but the point is

1437
00:54:29,270 --> 00:54:28,000
that the way

1438
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:29,280
that

1439
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:31,760
hugh urban processed it

1440
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:34,240
is the way that he is forced to process

1441
00:54:40,309 --> 00:54:37,040
it by his religious studies department

1442
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:40,319
at ohio state university and that is

1443
00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:41,520
i don't know if it's true i don't know

1444
00:54:44,230 --> 00:54:42,880
if there's anything to it but they

1445
00:54:46,870 --> 00:54:44,240
believed it

1446
00:54:49,349 --> 00:54:46,880
and that's what's most important

1447
00:54:51,589 --> 00:54:49,359
and i'm like no dude you gotta get

1448
00:54:52,950 --> 00:54:51,599
exactly opposite the first and foremost

1449
00:54:56,630 --> 00:54:52,960
question is

1450
00:54:59,510 --> 00:54:56,640
is there some possibility that it is

1451
00:55:03,030 --> 00:54:59,520
real in some way does consciousness

1452
00:55:06,549 --> 00:55:03,040
really exist does it extend beyond

1453
00:55:09,910 --> 00:55:06,559
our being into this other dimension that

1454
00:55:12,309 --> 00:55:09,920
is the first question to ask we don't

1455
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:12,319
skip over that question and say well

1456
00:55:18,309 --> 00:55:14,880
they believed it let's just process all

1457
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:18,319
this from some kind of sociology people

1458
00:55:22,630 --> 00:55:21,440
get together and do things stuff

1459
00:55:25,670 --> 00:55:22,640
hasn't

1460
00:55:28,630 --> 00:55:25,680
how does religious studies

1461
00:55:30,549 --> 00:55:28,640
get by with such nonsense of dropping

1462
00:55:33,510 --> 00:55:30,559
the ball and not being

1463
00:55:34,470 --> 00:55:33,520
spirit first even if the even if you're

1464
00:55:36,789 --> 00:55:34,480
atheist

1465
00:55:39,030 --> 00:55:36,799
you can be spirit first and you can say

1466
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:39,040
well damn it i'm an atheist and i and

1467
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:41,760
before but before i can go any further i

1468
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:45,040
have to establish whether or not

1469
00:55:49,270 --> 00:55:47,680
my philosophical belief in the

1470
00:55:51,190 --> 00:55:49,280
biological robot and meaningless

1471
00:55:53,349 --> 00:55:51,200
universe there is no consciousness i

1472
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:53,359
have to decide whether that's true

1473
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,880
so you decide if it's true it's

1474
00:55:57,670 --> 00:55:56,079
obviously true

1475
00:55:58,549 --> 00:55:57,680
but religious studies seem to just kind

1476
00:56:00,390 --> 00:55:58,559
of

1477
00:56:02,069 --> 00:56:00,400
sidestep it which seems completely

1478
00:56:04,630 --> 00:56:02,079
ridiculous

1479
00:56:07,270 --> 00:56:04,640
now that's actually very very fair

1480
00:56:09,430 --> 00:56:07,280
statement and a question so i i must say

1481
00:56:11,990 --> 00:56:09,440
i agree with you it is very so the

1482
00:56:13,589 --> 00:56:12,000
positive and negatives for for academia

1483
00:56:16,150 --> 00:56:13,599
so i agree with you it is extremely

1484
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:16,160
limiting and very early in my even

1485
00:56:20,789 --> 00:56:18,240
before i was an academic i realized that

1486
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:20,799
academia and this kind of rational

1487
00:56:25,829 --> 00:56:22,960
search because again academia is

1488
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:25,839
completely committed to uh this rational

1489
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:28,000
part of mine logic you know as the

1490
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,559
aristotelian and carthesian you know

1491
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:32,640
so it is which i consider very limiting

1492
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,319
and especially when you study religion

1493
00:56:38,309 --> 00:56:35,920
and spirituality it is very

1494
00:56:41,349 --> 00:56:38,319
disappointing because they

1495
00:56:42,950 --> 00:56:41,359
they deal with only artificial mental

1496
00:56:44,789 --> 00:56:42,960
rational models

1497
00:56:46,549 --> 00:56:44,799
right they do not deal with real

1498
00:56:49,270 --> 00:56:46,559
spiritual experience although nowadays

1499
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:49,280
it's changing i must say you know i also

1500
00:56:52,710 --> 00:56:51,359
you know participate in some writing

1501
00:56:54,789 --> 00:56:52,720
papers that you know how to see

1502
00:56:56,150 --> 00:56:54,799
spiritual experience but i had a similar

1503
00:56:57,990 --> 00:56:56,160
experience because

1504
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:58,000
academically some years ago i was

1505
00:57:02,390 --> 00:57:00,240
writing about spiritual experiences and

1506
00:57:03,910 --> 00:57:02,400
spiritual journeys you know and so on

1507
00:57:05,430 --> 00:57:03,920
why people you know have to sometimes

1508
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:05,440
leave the house to have a spiritual

1509
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:07,200
experience and so on

1510
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:08,640
and and and

1511
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,440
i was like such a lonely figure you know

1512
00:57:14,470 --> 00:57:12,880
i'm not anymore

1513
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:14,480
because these people thought i was a

1514
00:57:20,309 --> 00:57:18,079
complete lunatic you know like so uh

1515
00:57:22,150 --> 00:57:20,319
career-wise it was a suicide because on

1516
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,160
academia is all very mechanistic you

1517
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:24,160
know how many mentions how many people

1518
00:57:27,670 --> 00:57:25,440
you get you know in other people's

1519
00:57:29,030 --> 00:57:27,680
papers you go on academia.com and you

1520
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:29,040
know business

1521
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:31,520
and and and nobody was really interested

1522
00:57:34,870 --> 00:57:32,720
when i was talking about spiritual

1523
00:57:36,710 --> 00:57:34,880
experience and only some years later i

1524
00:57:39,670 --> 00:57:36,720
met the few academics who actually write

1525
00:57:43,030 --> 00:57:39,680
about it but not in that again in a very

1526
00:57:45,349 --> 00:57:43,040
meeting way very often right because

1527
00:57:47,349 --> 00:57:45,359
spiritual experience we have to come

1528
00:57:48,950 --> 00:57:47,359
back to we what we discussed previously

1529
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:48,960
does it fit in into this kind of

1530
00:57:55,190 --> 00:57:52,480
materialistic rational mind frame and

1531
00:57:56,789 --> 00:57:55,200
this is how academics operate this is

1532
00:57:58,950 --> 00:57:56,799
just another structure it's another

1533
00:58:00,710 --> 00:57:58,960
social structure academia it's not

1534
00:58:03,670 --> 00:58:00,720
necessarily it's definitely not about

1535
00:58:06,630 --> 00:58:03,680
the pursuit of wisdom it is more about

1536
00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:06,640
you know categorizing things right so

1537
00:58:09,750 --> 00:58:08,240
other people who did presentations at

1538
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:09,760
this conference would say why people

1539
00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:12,240
travel for pilgrimages ah because this

1540
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:13,920
this it has to be like in categories

1541
00:58:17,750 --> 00:58:16,000
nobody wanted to say well maybe they

1542
00:58:19,589 --> 00:58:17,760
want the spiritual experience and we

1543
00:58:20,789 --> 00:58:19,599
should ask what it is

1544
00:58:22,630 --> 00:58:20,799
but you know they thought i was a

1545
00:58:24,470 --> 00:58:22,640
lunatic because i was insisting on

1546
00:58:26,069 --> 00:58:24,480
something but you know they thought it's

1547
00:58:28,710 --> 00:58:26,079
just useless

1548
00:58:31,270 --> 00:58:28,720
so so unfortunately these are very

1549
00:58:32,789 --> 00:58:31,280
serious limitations of academia and i

1550
00:58:35,510 --> 00:58:32,799
realized that and it was very

1551
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:35,520
frustrating for me one good thing

1552
00:58:41,190 --> 00:58:38,799
about academia especially in such a

1553
00:58:44,069 --> 00:58:41,200
luminous topic you know uh like

1554
00:58:46,390 --> 00:58:44,079
spirituality is that

1555
00:58:48,390 --> 00:58:46,400
they do check their sources and when i

1556
00:58:51,270 --> 00:58:48,400
started to look into the alternative

1557
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,280
traditions like okay i'm going to be

1558
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:54,240
controversial again how many in you know

1559
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,000
embodiments of murray magdalene can

1560
00:59:00,150 --> 00:58:57,920
happen on planet earth at the moment and

1561
00:59:01,670 --> 00:59:00,160
everybody gets a channel and everybody

1562
00:59:03,829 --> 00:59:01,680
and i actually was trying to be very

1563
00:59:06,150 --> 00:59:03,839
democratic so when people were writing

1564
00:59:08,150 --> 00:59:06,160
to me i believe that i'm an embodiment

1565
00:59:09,349 --> 00:59:08,160
of murray magdalene but i heard that

1566
00:59:11,190 --> 00:59:09,359
there are others do you think it's

1567
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:11,200
possible and i said sure maybe you know

1568
00:59:14,710 --> 00:59:13,040
you connected to some consciousness and

1569
00:59:16,230 --> 00:59:14,720
it speaks for you and they would get

1570
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:16,240
upset with me because they want to be

1571
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:17,520
the only ones

1572
00:59:19,990 --> 00:59:18,400
you know

1573
00:59:23,030 --> 00:59:20,000
so i think okay

1574
00:59:25,030 --> 00:59:23,040
so what academia good is extremely

1575
00:59:26,789 --> 00:59:25,040
meeting because it deals only with one

1576
00:59:28,950 --> 00:59:26,799
form really limiting form of

1577
00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:28,960
consciousness but at least they check

1578
00:59:35,030 --> 00:59:32,079
their sources so what academia taught me

1579
00:59:37,349 --> 00:59:35,040
is discernment

1580
00:59:39,430 --> 00:59:37,359
you know what i mean like okay a very

1581
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:39,440
limited form of discernment but yeah the

1582
00:59:42,950 --> 00:59:41,359
very immediate form of discernment but

1583
00:59:44,710 --> 00:59:42,960
some discernment like

1584
00:59:47,829 --> 00:59:44,720
okay i can

1585
00:59:49,430 --> 00:59:47,839
i honor your spiritual experience but

1586
00:59:51,190 --> 00:59:49,440
you know certain things and i write

1587
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:51,200
especially in my book about one popular

1588
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:53,599
spiritual teacher in this area but i

1589
01:00:00,549 --> 00:59:54,799
think

1590
01:00:03,030 --> 01:00:00,559
like honestly you know like uh maybe

1591
01:00:04,789 --> 01:00:03,040
maybe it is true for you but you know i

1592
01:00:06,549 --> 01:00:04,799
here i'm just going to be skeptical

1593
01:00:07,990 --> 01:00:06,559
because you know i have no judgment you

1594
01:00:09,349 --> 01:00:08,000
know because he didn't do anything wrong

1595
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,359
you know he didn't rape children or

1596
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:11,280
anything so if it works for you but you

1597
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:13,280
know honestly no

1598
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:15,839
so so but yes academia is extremely

1599
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:17,680
meeting and they do not even talk with

1600
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:19,760
not even with a long stick you know

1601
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:22,960
spiritual experience so you are correct

1602
01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:23,839
well

1603
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:25,839
you know one of the strengths of your

1604
01:00:31,990 --> 01:00:29,520
book is that you do go cross culture

1605
01:00:33,670 --> 01:00:32,000
with the goddesses immediately yeah from

1606
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:33,680
the beginning so

1607
01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:35,680
talk about that talk about the other

1608
01:00:41,109 --> 01:00:38,480
goddesses that come into play and how

1609
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,119
you play off the mary magdalene thing

1610
01:00:44,150 --> 01:00:43,440
and how you find these other threads

1611
01:00:46,549 --> 01:00:44,160
that

1612
01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:46,559
turn out to be incredibly powerful

1613
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:48,880
because when you do weave them together

1614
01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:51,520
it's pretty hard to argue with the

1615
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:53,440
thesis that you're kind of bringing

1616
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:54,880
forward

1617
01:00:59,829 --> 01:00:57,680
actually it came from my own spiritual

1618
01:01:02,230 --> 01:00:59,839
experience again because as you know i

1619
01:01:03,750 --> 01:01:02,240
was moved towards esoteric hinduism and

1620
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:03,760
then i went back to

1621
01:01:08,150 --> 01:01:05,680
mary magdalene through prognostic

1622
01:01:10,630 --> 01:01:08,160
teachers teachings and i just realized

1623
01:01:11,990 --> 01:01:10,640
you know that there's certain symbolisms

1624
01:01:13,670 --> 01:01:12,000
you know but the same goddesses

1625
01:01:15,349 --> 01:01:13,680
represent the same powers but they're

1626
01:01:17,109 --> 01:01:15,359
representing the same symbols that

1627
01:01:18,950 --> 01:01:17,119
they're all dressed in red but they use

1628
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:18,960
this there is a skull there which is

1629
01:01:22,870 --> 01:01:20,240
actually the

1630
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:22,880
image for transcendence and so on and i

1631
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:24,559
started to ask myself the question you

1632
01:01:31,910 --> 01:01:28,720
know could they ex basically uh

1633
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:31,920
be a metaphor or representation of is

1634
01:01:36,630 --> 01:01:33,440
that different form of spiritual

1635
01:01:38,069 --> 01:01:36,640
consciousness that we're speaking about

1636
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:38,079
right because there are all of the

1637
01:01:42,390 --> 01:01:39,839
similarities between hindu goddesses

1638
01:01:44,549 --> 01:01:42,400
versus for example goddess radha you

1639
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:44,559
know who is portrayed exactly with

1640
01:01:48,470 --> 01:01:46,079
goddess radha but actually goddess

1641
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:48,480
sundari even more so who is

1642
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:50,960
or even goddess kali which is you know

1643
01:01:55,430 --> 01:01:52,880
can be shadow we can be redeeming it's

1644
01:01:58,230 --> 01:01:55,440
you know it's most controversial of them

1645
01:02:00,230 --> 01:01:58,240
she's also considered the goddess of uh

1646
01:02:01,029 --> 01:02:00,240
you know a tantric goddess

1647
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:01,039
uh

1648
01:02:05,190 --> 01:02:02,799
where they have the same symbolism you

1649
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,200
know where you the same color the the

1650
01:02:09,190 --> 01:02:07,280
same uh

1651
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:09,200
the same elements around them you know

1652
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:11,920
the same flowers the rose you know the

1653
01:02:17,829 --> 01:02:15,280
the red color the skull you know the the

1654
01:02:20,069 --> 01:02:17,839
passage between death and life so it

1655
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:20,079
these similarities are very difficult to

1656
01:02:24,150 --> 01:02:21,839
ignore

1657
01:02:27,670 --> 01:02:24,160
so you do cover that extensively but you

1658
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:27,680
also cover other goddesses that people

1659
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,960
run across

1660
01:02:31,750 --> 01:02:30,640
uh aphrodite

1661
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:31,760
isis

1662
01:02:35,670 --> 01:02:34,160
you you weave those into the story too

1663
01:02:39,029 --> 01:02:35,680
which i think is

1664
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:39,039
powerful because you remind us

1665
01:02:44,470 --> 01:02:41,520
why this archetype is an archetype and

1666
01:02:46,309 --> 01:02:44,480
how it does speak to us and i back to

1667
01:02:48,789 --> 01:02:46,319
that other point how it speak to us

1668
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:48,799
speaks seems to speak to us

1669
01:02:52,230 --> 01:02:50,400
differently if we're a man or a woman

1670
01:02:53,910 --> 01:02:52,240
and i think that's a that's a good thing

1671
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:53,920
so men can

1672
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:56,000
kind of grow a little bit and women can

1673
01:02:59,029 --> 01:02:57,119
kind of feel

1674
01:03:00,950 --> 01:02:59,039
empowered a little bit that hey this

1675
01:03:03,750 --> 01:03:00,960
isn't something new that we just cooked

1676
01:03:06,390 --> 01:03:03,760
up that's right and i think you know i

1677
01:03:08,710 --> 01:03:06,400
think that we are you know in this

1678
01:03:10,630 --> 01:03:08,720
reality in which we live we are caught

1679
01:03:12,470 --> 01:03:10,640
in polarities but you know some

1680
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:12,480
polarities are beautiful such as like

1681
01:03:16,069 --> 01:03:14,079
being a woman and being a man for

1682
01:03:18,390 --> 01:03:16,079
example right and and you know the

1683
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,400
beautiful energy and chemistry and i

1684
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:21,039
talk also about erotic connection in my

1685
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:22,960
book that can happen because of this and

1686
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,720
i also don't want to be limiting here to

1687
01:03:28,549 --> 01:03:26,720
men and women you know whatever

1688
01:03:30,390 --> 01:03:28,559
it is you know this male and female

1689
01:03:33,190 --> 01:03:30,400
energies playing together

1690
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:33,200
and and i think we are here for a reason

1691
01:03:36,870 --> 01:03:35,039
in this particular way and these

1692
01:03:39,430 --> 01:03:36,880
polarities actually

1693
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:39,440
allow us to transcend themselves as well

1694
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:41,280
you know there are also tools you know

1695
01:03:45,510 --> 01:03:43,359
and and maybe not everything has to be

1696
01:03:47,910 --> 01:03:45,520
so terribly serious and some of the gods

1697
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:47,920
especially the ancient greek gods i just

1698
01:03:51,829 --> 01:03:50,160
said the recently different interview

1699
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:51,839
and we agreed you know they showed us

1700
01:03:56,309 --> 01:03:53,839
how to be playful you know they were not

1701
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:56,319
particularly you know responsible all

1702
01:03:59,990 --> 01:03:58,559
right they were really like spoiled

1703
01:04:03,029 --> 01:04:00,000
celebrities

1704
01:04:04,630 --> 01:04:03,039
but you know like an aphrodite i just

1705
01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:04,640
talked about it why she lost her power

1706
01:04:08,069 --> 01:04:06,400
and so on but you know they were very

1707
01:04:10,390 --> 01:04:08,079
charismatic and

1708
01:04:12,390 --> 01:04:10,400
and and they were and they had lots of

1709
01:04:14,230 --> 01:04:12,400
fun you know so

1710
01:04:15,990 --> 01:04:14,240
this is part of this as well and how to

1711
01:04:17,589 --> 01:04:16,000
be empowered as a woman and how to be

1712
01:04:20,789 --> 01:04:17,599
empowered as a man

1713
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:20,799
in in an uplifting you know an

1714
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:23,520
an attractive way so to speak right so

1715
01:04:29,270 --> 01:04:26,799
so so we can play with the solarities

1716
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:29,280
awesome i love the way that you put that

1717
01:04:31,270 --> 01:04:30,400
so

1718
01:04:35,270 --> 01:04:31,280
there's

1719
01:04:37,430 --> 01:04:35,280
thing people will find is

1720
01:04:39,349 --> 01:04:37,440
it's a beautiful book i mean just

1721
01:04:41,750 --> 01:04:39,359
looking at it it's just

1722
01:04:43,750 --> 01:04:41,760
the art i think you can see on the cover

1723
01:04:45,589 --> 01:04:43,760
but then even in the pages you know i've

1724
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:45,599
done so

1725
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,160
what what do you think about

1726
01:04:53,270 --> 01:04:50,240
beauty as

1727
01:04:56,789 --> 01:04:53,280
we do associate beauty more with this

1728
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:56,799
feminine energy what was your thought in

1729
01:05:01,510 --> 01:04:59,599
making a book like this that looks like

1730
01:05:03,750 --> 01:05:01,520
this

1731
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:03,760
beauty is very important for me i think

1732
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:05,599
i'm kind of naturally

1733
01:05:09,990 --> 01:05:07,599
and it's not even an intellectual choice

1734
01:05:11,829 --> 01:05:10,000
i'm naturally tuned into beauty and i

1735
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:11,839
see beauty in many things you know so

1736
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:13,920
even in we have a very small garden and

1737
01:05:18,150 --> 01:05:16,319
you know and i see beauty everywhere so

1738
01:05:20,069 --> 01:05:18,160
that's very important for me and that's

1739
01:05:22,390 --> 01:05:20,079
part of the reason why

1740
01:05:24,549 --> 01:05:22,400
uh and i think beauty is a form of

1741
01:05:26,950 --> 01:05:24,559
transcendence you know as long as we

1742
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:26,960
again do not diminish into some

1743
01:05:30,309 --> 01:05:28,960
special attributes

1744
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:30,319
so uh

1745
01:05:34,710 --> 01:05:32,640
so when i was writing this book and when

1746
01:05:36,309 --> 01:05:34,720
i was writing this book i wanted to be

1747
01:05:38,789 --> 01:05:36,319
very readable you know so i didn't

1748
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:38,799
wanted to to write an academic book for

1749
01:05:43,990 --> 01:05:41,359
many reasons and i want and i hope for

1750
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,000
this that you know it would be very

1751
01:05:47,829 --> 01:05:46,000
pleasant reading because i associate

1752
01:05:51,029 --> 01:05:47,839
beauty also not only of transcendence

1753
01:05:53,829 --> 01:05:51,039
but also sensual pleasure right so i i

1754
01:05:55,750 --> 01:05:53,839
hope that this book would be that and as

1755
01:05:57,349 --> 01:05:55,760
far as for cover i want to thank shaira

1756
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:57,359
sophia who is a an artist from

1757
01:06:01,910 --> 01:05:59,280
california a very prolific

1758
01:06:03,190 --> 01:06:01,920
artist who you know offered her painting

1759
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:03,200
for this book

1760
01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:05,200
and i actually you know was looking at

1761
01:06:09,270 --> 01:06:06,880
different paintings and then i was in

1762
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:09,280
meditation and i actually asked the book

1763
01:06:13,349 --> 01:06:11,520
what face would you like to have

1764
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:13,359
and you know and i reached out to

1765
01:06:17,910 --> 01:06:15,520
several artists and you know this one

1766
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:17,920
came right through and i actually gave

1767
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:20,880
shiloh sophia you know different

1768
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,640
paintings which one would you be you

1769
01:06:26,870 --> 01:06:24,640
know be willing and she said that one

1770
01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:26,880
and i thought okay so the book wants to

1771
01:06:31,990 --> 01:06:29,200
have this face you know so i decided

1772
01:06:33,910 --> 01:06:32,000
it's not me anymore it's you know now it

1773
01:06:36,390 --> 01:06:33,920
has its own life it's almost like a

1774
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:36,400
child right it has its own life and it

1775
01:06:41,430 --> 01:06:38,720
wanted to have this beautiful face

1776
01:06:43,349 --> 01:06:41,440
and and this is what it is so i think

1777
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:43,359
beauty is very important as a form of

1778
01:06:47,190 --> 01:06:45,359
transcendence and spiritual experience

1779
01:06:49,990 --> 01:06:47,200
you know plato also wrote about it in

1780
01:06:51,829 --> 01:06:50,000
his dialogue but

1781
01:06:54,390 --> 01:06:51,839
it doesn't have to be called kind of

1782
01:06:56,470 --> 01:06:54,400
apollonian beauty and can be also a form

1783
01:06:58,710 --> 01:06:56,480
of sensual duty experiencing this

1784
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:58,720
consciousness this divine in simple

1785
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:59,680
things like

1786
01:07:03,270 --> 01:07:01,359
in life you know just like being in a

1787
01:07:05,109 --> 01:07:03,280
garden or you know

1788
01:07:07,029 --> 01:07:05,119
making love with someone you know that

1789
01:07:10,390 --> 01:07:07,039
matters to you

1790
01:07:11,670 --> 01:07:10,400
how wonderful how wonderful okay so

1791
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:11,680
any

1792
01:07:16,470 --> 01:07:14,559
other thoughts about the book stuff that

1793
01:07:18,630 --> 01:07:16,480
we haven't covered and and where do you

1794
01:07:20,950 --> 01:07:18,640
plan to go from here with it do you have

1795
01:07:22,230 --> 01:07:20,960
another book in mind are you working on

1796
01:07:24,230 --> 01:07:22,240
something else

1797
01:07:26,549 --> 01:07:24,240
no not at the moment because at the

1798
01:07:29,029 --> 01:07:26,559
moment i'm just enjoying the process and

1799
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:29,039
that the whole writing of the book was a

1800
01:07:33,270 --> 01:07:31,280
form of liberation for me because i

1801
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,280
realized as i was writing this book and

1802
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,760
decided to write it this way that hey as

1803
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,280
you mentioned it is full of

1804
01:07:43,029 --> 01:07:40,000
self-exposure in a very intimate part of

1805
01:07:45,430 --> 01:07:43,039
your life my life but also

1806
01:07:47,990 --> 01:07:45,440
you know that i was a complete slave to

1807
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:48,000
the social engineering before because i

1808
01:07:51,829 --> 01:07:49,760
for all my life i was completely

1809
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:51,839
obsessed with what my academic friends

1810
01:07:55,589 --> 01:07:53,440
think and i was also

1811
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:55,599
a part of the literary

1812
01:07:58,470 --> 01:07:57,760
kind of elite you know because they like

1813
01:08:00,630 --> 01:07:58,480
to

1814
01:08:02,390 --> 01:08:00,640
call themselves like that and they

1815
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:02,400
thought that i completely lost my mind

1816
01:08:06,390 --> 01:08:04,799
as well like my academic colleagues and

1817
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:06,400
then i decided

1818
01:08:11,589 --> 01:08:08,960
i just don't care anymore you know

1819
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:11,599
that's my expression of my freedom and

1820
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:14,480
of my spirituality and my spiritual

1821
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:16,640
spirituality looks like that you know

1822
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:18,560
and it's not that it has to look like

1823
01:08:22,950 --> 01:08:21,120
that it's just my experience of it

1824
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:22,960
so at the moment i'm just enjoying the

1825
01:08:27,910 --> 01:08:25,679
process like you know this interview uh

1826
01:08:29,910 --> 01:08:27,920
i think after that

1827
01:08:32,309 --> 01:08:29,920
i would take some a break you know

1828
01:08:33,990 --> 01:08:32,319
because i need some rest and if i write

1829
01:08:35,349 --> 01:08:34,000
another book it probably would be about

1830
01:08:39,590 --> 01:08:35,359
consciousness

1831
01:08:41,829 --> 01:08:39,600
right so because it just kind of

1832
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:41,839
naturally evolved into this but could

1833
01:08:46,309 --> 01:08:43,440
not be a part of this book because you

1834
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:46,319
know it's just a different book

1835
01:08:50,709 --> 01:08:48,880
well in so many ways you've written a

1836
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:50,719
beautiful beautiful book about

1837
01:08:55,669 --> 01:08:53,199
consciousness because that's that is

1838
01:08:59,189 --> 01:08:55,679
ultimately what it's about um our guest

1839
01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:59,199
again has been dr joanna cueva the book

1840
01:09:02,870 --> 01:09:00,799
that you're going to want to check out

1841
01:09:05,430 --> 01:09:02,880
the other goddess

1842
01:09:07,349 --> 01:09:05,440
been awesome you know i loved every part

1843
01:09:10,390 --> 01:09:07,359
of this i loved talking with you

1844
01:09:13,189 --> 01:09:10,400
beforehand connecting studying it

1845
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:13,199
thinking about it the book was

1846
01:09:16,789 --> 01:09:14,719
it really

1847
01:09:18,470 --> 01:09:16,799
sent me on a journey you know i remember

1848
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:18,480
i was just mentioning to my wife she

1849
01:09:22,470 --> 01:09:20,560
goes oh what are you interviewing this

1850
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:22,480
woman who's an academic written a book

1851
01:09:26,630 --> 01:09:24,880
on goddess there's goddess energy or

1852
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:26,640
goddesses and she's like she perked

1853
01:09:30,870 --> 01:09:28,719
right up she goes oh god i like that you

1854
01:09:33,349 --> 01:09:30,880
know and it just

1855
01:09:35,430 --> 01:09:33,359
even that little bit though it just

1856
01:09:40,149 --> 01:09:35,440
connected me with

1857
01:09:41,829 --> 01:09:40,159
that divide that is there that

1858
01:09:43,269 --> 01:09:41,839
because we live in a male-dominated

1859
01:09:45,430 --> 01:09:43,279
culture

1860
01:09:47,510 --> 01:09:45,440
back to the kind of reality of the

1861
01:09:49,269 --> 01:09:47,520
wokeness kind of thing which we did need

1862
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:49,279
wokeness in a way let's we're both

1863
01:09:53,110 --> 01:09:52,080
saying that you know we can't deny it

1864
01:09:55,270 --> 01:09:53,120
is that

1865
01:09:57,350 --> 01:09:55,280
men especially

1866
01:09:58,950 --> 01:09:57,360
can really benefit from this book

1867
01:10:03,270 --> 01:09:58,960
because it

1868
01:10:05,510 --> 01:10:03,280
it does in a very genuine way

1869
01:10:08,229 --> 01:10:05,520
ask you to look at a different

1870
01:10:10,709 --> 01:10:08,239
perspective in a different way in a way

1871
01:10:12,470 --> 01:10:10,719
that that you do have a way of kind of

1872
01:10:14,390 --> 01:10:12,480
getting there with some of the things

1873
01:10:17,990 --> 01:10:14,400
that you mentioned that you know we have

1874
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:18,000
heard about before so that's wonderful

1875
01:10:22,709 --> 01:10:19,440
thank you so much

1876
01:10:24,390 --> 01:10:22,719
enjoyed the book

1877
01:10:27,030 --> 01:10:24,400
thanks again to joanna for joining me

1878
01:10:29,030 --> 01:10:27,040
today on skeptico the one question i t

1879
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:29,040
up from this interview is

1880
01:10:35,110 --> 01:10:31,520
how do you understand this relationship

1881
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,120
between sexuality and spirituality

1882
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:37,440
and isn't it awesome

1883
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:40,080
that she's written a book about this i

1884
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:41,840
think it is awesome and i think her

1885
01:10:46,149 --> 01:10:43,679
point about

1886
01:10:49,510 --> 01:10:46,159
how we've let darkness

1887
01:10:51,990 --> 01:10:49,520
dominate the discussion of sexuality

1888
01:10:53,910 --> 01:10:52,000
is really an awesome awesome point there

1889
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:53,920
i've answered the question which i

1890
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:55,920
usually try not to do but

1891
01:11:00,149 --> 01:10:57,440
i went ahead and did it what's your

1892
01:11:02,550 --> 01:11:00,159
thoughts on it let me know best place

1893
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:02,560
skeptical forum i wish you all would

1894
01:11:05,189 --> 01:11:04,080
come over there it's getting pretty

1895
01:11:07,830 --> 01:11:05,199
lonely

1896
01:11:10,230 --> 01:11:07,840
until next time take care